[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by batlash

You never really addressed it. Like most of your arguements, you called the guy an asshole & a douche rather than have a coherent arguement to back yourself on. As for his principles - refusing to go to a restaurant that doesn't treat their staff properly is a LOT more principled than someone who would paper over such bad corporate behavior by applying the difference yourself. Your method just rewards and encourages such bad behavior by the establishment to continue.

What? Paying someone a proper wage is worse than not paying it because they system won't force him to do so? Get your skewed views the fuck out of here.

What's more, it's usually when people start running out of good rebuttal points when they start criticizing the language in a post. Yeah, my posts are completely incoherent. Forget the fact that you just had a ton of different counterpoints. Did you invent the points you were responding to? Because we all know mine were unreadable. It's a scientific fact the words douche and asshole cannot exist in understandable sentences.

Originally Posted by batlash

It's actually completely appliceable. Wal-Mart does have a system that can be fixed by the consumer - STOP FUCKING SHOPPING THERE - see - very simple. If enough people stop shopping there because they won't accept such practices, bad behaving companies will be forced to address such issues and correct their actions.

And still you desperately try to shoehorn that comparison in. The reason the solution to Wal-Mart is to stop shopping there is because you cannot solve it at the time of transaction. If you could, that would be the answer.

Originally Posted by batlash

About 5 years ago in Montreal, SEARS removed all traces of english from in-store signage and would only post french ones ( despite being allowed by law if used together with a few adjustments ). People protested and boycotted SEARS on this issue, and guess what - they CORRECTED the problem rather than lose sales and clients.

Okay? You seem to think I'm not agreeing that jackass shouldn't go to restaurants. I've already said he should stop. He's justifying going and not tipping. In fact, I'm saying he should stop going entirely rather than by somehow magically knowing everybody's pay rate and making a decision accordingly.

And anyone who tips doesn't have to stop going because there isn't a problem for them. The only people who care are assholes who like to stiff waiters.

Originally Posted by batlash

There's a big difference in a customary practice and a required practice. Lets assume minimum wage laws are respected & applied to the wait staff. In that case CUSTOM dictates that it should be paid... not that it's required. If the service is really bad in this case - and is clearly due to the server, should bad performance of one's job be rewarded just because it's custom?

If this

Originally Posted by batlash

You're actually MORE guilty by purchasing the NIKES because you're supporting the behavior and not contributing to correcting it.

What? By going to restaurants and not tipping, he's supporting the behavior (the businesses don't give a fuck if he tips), and he's not contributing to correct it, AND he had a clear opportunity to make the entire thing right and he didn't.

Originally Posted by batlash

Actually your arguement the whole time has been we should subsidize waiters for the possible losses they endure to bad employment conditions because their employers won't. By your own arguement, every time we buy a pair of Nikes - we should send a check to cover the difference in wages to some 11 year old kid in some 3rd World Country.

If the child is RIGHT THERE at the time of transaction, and you watch him making the shoe, yes. OR you shouldn't buy the shoes at all. You're defending a person who says it's okay to buy the shoes but not pay the difference. You seem to disagree with his sentiment, and yet you're still arguing with me.

Originally Posted by batlash

ACTUALLY - that's the government's job - to make sure that employees are treated fairly. That's why they have a labour standards act.

How is not getting rid of tipping and letting people still get fucked over by motherfucker over there a solution? The government still expects that a waiter receives tips, and deducts for it, and asshole still is justifying not tipping because the system doesn't force him to pay more.

Don't try to pretend like 90% of restaurants are paying their waiters illegally low amounts. The system is fucked. It's not the case that the law is fine and people are disobeying it. Tipping fixes it, not tipping fucks it up more. These are the facts.