[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by yoav

i'm a thief but defined by who? my country, legal system, etc. do not consider me a thief and because i'm within it's jurisdiction i am not a thief.

thievery is itself a concept, one of ownership, if tomorrow the government decided air had value, then me breathing the air in your house without your explicit permission would be considered theft.

Theft is taking something that you do not own.

You do not own the music you are taking.

You are a thief.

If you don't think music has ownership, you hate art.

Originally Posted by yoav

why can't you make your point without directing personal insults, it's very juvenile. this thread is not about thievery.

And yet the news article is about a thief.

Originally Posted by yoav

the vast majority of music pirates(studies have been done) still pay for the same amount of music they did previously. they still pay for music, they still go to shows, they still buy merchandise, they still support artists and they do it because they like music. they actually do it more now because due to piracy they are exposed to more music at a faster rate than listening to the radio and a wider span than watching the same 5 videos on mtv cycle redundantly because they too get a cut from the product placement.

1) That exposure rate is NOT AT ALL tied to illegal downloads; it is increased exposure that is the result of new media. If illegal downloading was eliminated, that exposure would not go away.

2) Since the only positive quality to theft you could offer is not specific to illegal downloading, and is endemic to the internet as a whole, there need only be but one person who did not buy something they would have otherwise bought. We all know this has happened. Thus, illegal downloading has a negative effect.

Originally Posted by yoav

i started this thread to show the riaa(whether or not they read this) that their scare tactics and manipulation of the legal system is not effective.

You sure do claim to have a lot of balls for someone who cannot be affected by their bravado.

Originally Posted by yoav

if you make a digital copy, you are a criminal under US law, it doesn't matter what the library says, what your morals are or that you didn't know, if the riaa finds out and the library is issued a subpoena for you information and what content you made digital copies of they can and will sue you for up to $150,000 per item. when bob shouts, he's shouting at you as much as me. the library is not allowed to make copies either, your library is promoting thievery and bob will go swear at them now.

Even though I've already made it clear that I'm defending the spirit of the law and not the letter of it, you choose to try to insist that I think otherwise. You cannot build a sturdy house with lies.

Originally Posted by yoav

as far as us disagreeing, i don't think it's true, we both think it should be legal to copy a song you purchase onto your ipod for convenience. i don't think either of us likes being called a criminal or the idea of being sued obscene amounts of money for doing nothing wrong.

Yes, copying a purchased song onto an iPod should be legal.

But that's not what this woman from the article did, is it? And it's not what you do, is it?

In the library thing she shouldn't be considered a criminal, whereas you still should be. Don't try to foster solidarity with people who understand that you aren't entitled to everything.

Originally Posted by yoav

the porn thread is very illegal, katg are not responsible as everyone who joins the forums agrees to a contract that they are not liable for what's posted here. the uploaders are all criminals, and anyone who's been there is supporting crime. sexy sexy crime. funny that bob doesn't yell in the porn thread more. i guess he's just a loud obnoxious hypocrite.

Porn thieves haven't adopted this ridiculous notion of fighting The Man. If they did, I'd be yelling at them.

Uploaders are all criminals, and anyone who's been in there is supporting crime.

I don't yell in the porn thread simply because I don't go into the porn thread.