[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by yoav

have i stated my love for you recently?

it's amazing how quick that bob guy forgets how i unequivocally proved i was not a thief in multiple contexts, and how he continues to accuse me of being one and not any of the other people who've posted here about the same things i have, nor admitted his own thief morals were in fact thief morals, bob is pious and his god serves him and him only.

Your very first response to me was in defense of pirating.

My problem with you is that you 1) pirate music without owning a legal copy of the same music, and 2) that you defend doing so.

Even if the first isn't true (which I very highly doubt), the second definitely is.

Originally Posted by yoav

almost like he's got something against me specifically, he never lashed out at browneyedbitch or nebraska for being thieves.. i think no matter what the topic of this thread was he would have lashed out at me for 15 pages without making a valid point once or staying on topic. at least he's passionate about his hate towards me, gotta respect passion.

I never lashed out at browneyedbitch or nebraska for being thieves either.

I have stayed on topic for this entire thread, so accusations that I'm hating on you without basis are unfounded. I have given my reason, and that reason has been clear in every single one of my posts.

Originally Posted by dzagama

Well, then, this has been 9 pages of nothing.

No one's disagreeing about the fundamental issue of artists having the right to create the market in any way they see fit.

If an artist wants to sell an MP3 with a license that forbids copying, then they have that right.

One has the right to accept those terms, or boycott the artist.

One has the right to break the terms of the license, and be rightfully called a thief.

If an artist wants to distribute an MP3 in the public domain, they have that right.

All this talk about inevitability is silly. All crime is inevitable.

By acquiescing to inevitability, you deprive a very valuable subset of society, the creators, the ability to create.

Originally Posted by dzagama

The point of contention appears to be: should artists be able to charge money for something that can be reproduced infinitely at zero-cost.

Bob and I seem to think so.

j2x, and possibly yoav, appear to think not.

Lots of things in the real-world have prices that don't reflect the actual cost of manufacture.

CDs, DVDs, printed artwork, architectural blueprints (maybe?), etc.

Things are priced above the cost of manufacture because of some innate value we give art and innovation, which extends beyond the media.

Why is any duplicated idea, realized in a physical form, priced above the cost of manufacture?

Why should this be different in the digital world?

As you realized, you do not actually agree with yoav.

Your summary has been my entire and only subject throughout this entire thread.

If yoav had his way and digital copying had existed 20 years ago, Bill Watterson would be a poor man, or he would have been forced to compromise his artistic integrity.

Yoav is advocating destroying the ability for an artist to solely produce art, and it is despicable to do such a thing and claim to support art.

Contending that art has neither value nor ownership is nothing but damaging to artists, but not to merchandisers.

Essentially, yoav thinks there would be nothing wrong with me stealing a digital copy of all of the KATG DVDs and CDs, and then selling KATG merchandise I produced myself.

If he has a problem with the stealing part, he is a hypocrite. If he has a problem with me profiting off of art, that means art has ownership, which is something he deprives from artists when he steals it in the first place. If he is depriving artists of ownership, artists do lose something from people stealing digital copies of his work. Since he has stated that artists lose nothing, he contends that art has no ownership.

I find it nothing short of disgusting and vile to make such claims.

I think KATG is owned by Keith and Chemda, even though it is distributed for free. Yoav thinks otherwise. If anyone has a problem with me profiting off of their work, that person disagrees with yoav.