[yoav]

Originally Posted by Mattman

In my previous posts I was giving you the benefit of doubt and trying to treat you with some form of respect for your point of view. I see now that I was wrong to do so.

Firstly I do not believe that I know everything about everything, which is why I said "right or wrong" about that part of my value system. Only an arrogant ignoramus would assume they were absolutely right about something that in essence has no proof. You are such an ignoramus.

Secondly, I was referring to YOU and your kind when I said people who would like to "take it away". You and your kind like to think that because you do not believe ... none of us can. The majority of people in the Cathedral in Vietnam are Vietnamese. D'uh! There are about 4 million-plus Catholics in Vietnam. The Church provides a lot of support to the poor Vietnamese communities, including schools and hospitals. I personally do a lot of community work in this field. Again, you don't know .. so maybe you should shut up.

I really don't understand your dangerous person statement, as it is YOU who seem to be the ignorant, hateful person who would look to eradicate religion
because you don't believe. I am promoting knowledge, as the first post that you decided to argue with was also doing. Knowledge, not belief - I have not tried to convert anyone here, I have simply stated how my religion fits into my life. Maybe some people would like to understand that point .. clearly you are not one of those people.

And your final statement just shows how worthless you are. You can keep your opinions of how I bring up my children to yourself. I personally chose to convert to Catholicism, and I was mature enough and knowledgeable enough to understand why I was doing it. I was also humble enough to find the right place for it in my life.

With the exception of your posts I don't even know you, but I would confidently say I am more of a complete person that you are .. "crutch" and all!

how can you believe in the god described in your bible or the ceremonies carried out in "his" name, or any part of your religion if you don't believe the bible is the word of god? or god speaking through someone..

if you do believe the bible, then it says right in there that it's the word of god and infallible. if you believe the pope is infallible and the decision maker of what is moral and right or wrong, then you are a very dangerous person because your will is not your own. the pope could declare a fatwā tomorrow on orangoutangs , and the next day all the orangoutangs would be gone. exploded.

if you do not believe that the bible, pope, etc. are infallible and speak the word of god. then you still give them the same amount of support, and are perhaps not a willing soldier in a potential army, but still give your vote of support to that potential army. it's like a person thinking factory farms are awful but still eating mcdonalds every tuesday.

i believe very firmly in a person's right to believe whatever they want. i just wish you had the strength not to believe in fairy tails, despite the comfort you get from such fairy tails. the world really isn't terrifying without religion, you've just been taught to believe it is.

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

Maybe i'm missing something Yoav but this guy is a dangerous person because he's going to mass? Or because he (or she) said that whatever people say, he will have something that people cannot take away?

If your issue is with the latter statement, let me do a rephrasing:

"On the 15th of april, me and 500 other people will attend a KATG meeting. We will have something that outsiders dont understand. Right or wrong. We will have it. No one can take that away. It is a real source of strength for us"

What a nut, right? But believe me that sentence will go through the head of a lot of people here.

A lot of angry atheists that havent learned enough of the marvel that cold emotionless reason can give, act as their stance against religion is a battle postion and religious people are the enemy. Problem is, a guy who thinks that he will have a community feeling by going to church doesnt do any real harm.

Now if said guy said that he is going to attend a 500 people gathering of the church of the burning nigger, now that would be desputable. But still harmless, as long as it is a gathering (let them gather, who gives a shit)

But if said guy posted, i will meet with other people and we will bash the brains out of all non-believers, he would be dangerous. Hell he would be dangerous even if he was beating up non believers on his own. And he will be at least reprobable if he was pointing his finger and inuslting non believers.

But, see, my idea of atheism is believing in reason and logic and in the absence of absolute truths. So, taking away religion from the equation, you're the one that's attacking him because of his beliefs. You're pointing the finger and accusing. You're labeling him. You're segregatingn him.

You're the one whoi's acting dangerous. So be the atheist person and take the high road and answer like a true atheist:

"I'm going to a gathering of 500 people and we will blablabla"
"Whatever"

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

There was a religious discussion on and he did the very catholic trick of posting the "Say whatever, i will pray with my community and we will feel great. i dont care about y'all".

Most religious people do that but catholics love it. They get their self reassurance from the gathering/family/you dont get us/we feel sorry for you thing.

And if you watch the westboro church documentaries, their whole shtick is just an angrier version of that. "We're praying, we're a gathering, we have something that you dont understand". The feeling of being misunderstood is a great energy source for groups. Especially if some misguided people act like they're stupid or insane.

ah i see that now. wish you would have explained that before i posted cause i read his response as:

"i see how my practices of supporting christianity whether direct or indirect negatively affect society, and that despite building churches and schools here and there(which if i cared about i could easily donate to non-profits that do that) only for the purpose of spreading the word so that 50 years down the line vietnamese people will pray to the same god as me and donate to the same pope as me so he can buy an even bigger city and have an even bigger palace and golden throne to sit on.

i see that the abrahamic religions as a whole are designed to enslave the mind, oppress women, kill non believers, etc. and that the billionaire monarch who ultimately decides what his followers do and think - a concept so far from even what the bible claims jesus wanted, to be an obvious farce even to evangelicals. but i don't care if my actions or support go to something that is morally right or wrong, i don't care if that monarch instructs me to fullfil hate or protect child molesters or if that is morally right or wrong, i don't care if that monarch instructs me to hate gay people or remove their rights and treat them as sub citizens, or whether that is right or wrong, as long as i'm fulfilling my need to fit in and feel safe right and wrong doesn't matter.

furthermore, now that i've explained i have no moral compass, i'd also like to add that i will go to infinite lengths to defend my support of this monarchy especially against imaginary threats."

it's possible you meant "right or wrong" as correct or incorrect in the sense of whether or not the bible is the true word of god or not. and that you never went deep enough to even begin to consider the impact of your lifestyle beyond yourself, ie: whether the impacts direct or indirect are right or wrong.

regardless, the things you get from going to mass can be gotten from other sources and be equally fulfilling. and the negative impact of supporting catholicism(counts as one vote for every bad thing they do) far outweighs the pros. and that's just today, who knows what the pope will decree tomorrow that you will have to blindly follow for fear of losing what you depend on for security and comfort in this world. because of your devotion we're all at the mercy of a very old man who believes he can't be wrong.