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Old 05-18-2023, 01:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
MongoMike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2022
Posts: 106
My qualifier before any statement on the Neely death in the subway discussion. I have only been able to find videos that don't seem to cover the entire incident however from what is seen on the video here is the information currently available;

Neely was harassing and by witness statements sounds like he was assaulting subway passengers (not battery but assault). The general consensus among the witnesses was that Neely was ramping up on a mental break and his aggression levels were building and assault was presumed to become battery and or sexual assault on the female which was his main focus imminently.

Penny hoped on his back and attempted to restrain Neely to prevent the escalation. The other riders on the subway are seen trying to help Penny control Neely's arms and legs while he is trying to swing them around wildly (thus not choked out). Penny is also repeatedly being praised by the other members on the train and after when they gave their statements for restraining Neely.

Now the "choke". As an individual who has rear naked joked people thousands of times and been rear naked joked thousands of times...I at no point in the video that was made available saw a cinched rear naked choke. That is to say at no time that I could see was the blood flow to the brain constricted. With this said something did happen to Neely during this time and it would seem to align with his actions if there was some drug overdose at play here, I'm guessing Fentanyl again giving the timetable which is very similar to other such incidents where the ramping of behavior and system stress of physical altercation can magnify the acute effects of that type of overdose. After Neely stopped moving he was released and put in the recovery position by Penny.

Items to note. In a rear naked choke the individual will loose consciousness very quickly not slowly over 15 minutes. I at no time saw a successful rear naked choke administered during the available videos but did note that when the man became unconscious after about 15 minutes he was immediately released and put on his side.

The restraint hold used in the video is something you would see on WWE or a big brother use on a little sister. It can control the body but doesn't actually hurt anything. Given the body lock employed I would actually guess that Penny could know the difference and probably purposely didn't choke Neely for most of the video but may have resolved to choking him out eventually just to be able to safely end the altercation and disengage but he definitely didn't have a choke applied for 15 minutes as is being speculated.

The rear naked choke may or may not be able to actually kill someone. This is slightly controversial here since it can for sure result in brain damage and based on a lot of variables of where that damage is...maybe. To note is that there is still some small amount of blood supplied to the brain during this choke up the spinal column but not enough to sustain consciousness. To kill the man with this choke it would have had to be applied for a sustained amount of time which over the 15 minute altercation and the video coverage of that time indicate that this did not happen.

To apply this choke properly for the amount of time necessary to maybe kill someone would require substantial sustained force from big muscle groups that should be able to be observed in labored breathing from the applicant and probably some additional signs of fatigue and flushing. This doesn't appear to be whats happening...just looks like he is holding on until the man calms down.
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