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Old 08-04-2013, 04:02 AM   #161 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DJQuad View Post
lol. doh I meant paleolithic, as in the stone age.
lol i didn't realise your original word wasn't a word

i was making fun of what i thought was my ignorance.

turns out, i'm a fucking genius. i bet god showed me that your word was bullshit.
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Old 08-04-2013, 07:56 PM   #162 (permalink)
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here's a twist:

You gotta have faith: the rise of the church of non-believers

EDIT: actually it sounds like what Mike & mates are doing, so not so much a twist, although the Sunday AM thing is a nice touch
They're touring the US and will be in LA in a couple of months. It's similar to what we're doing with regards to community but they're doing it more in the style of church (singing and sermons).
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:02 AM   #163 (permalink)
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As long as it's not termed "marriage" I think the LGBT community would get a lot further with their human rights. When they use the term marriage it invokes all sorts of opposition from the right-wingers.
Dear Blacks:

You cannot drink from my water fountain. You can have your own water fountain, I guess, because I'm so magnanimous and open minded, but it's offensive to me for you to call it that because /my/ water fountain, while exactly the same as yours, is totally bitchin' and sacred. Please feel free to thank me for my solution to your keeping your big gross mouths off where i put mine.

-------


not offending bigoted dicknuts is not an excuse to label another free american's family second class. it doesn't get anyone further, it drags us backward and down.
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Laugh a little, chigger. The world is a fun place.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:05 AM   #164 (permalink)
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and for good measure:

Dear Christians,

Stop walking around like you invented and hold a trademark for 'marriage.' It existed before you. It exists outside of you.

-------------

not one person ever had a problem with my atheist marriage. never questioned its validation against biblical principles. i could go around being a giant anti-theist asshole all day long and STILL my being a pretty white (seemingly) straight girl protects my ability to call my relationship a 'marriage' no matter how fucked up, twisted, and not what the bible deems proper.

the only difference that seems to matter between my sham of a marriage and my gay friends actual beautiful love is how our gender binaries present to the world. it's fucking dumb.

words matter. and not any one group owns something so ubiquitous as pair bonding.
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Last edited by Sparrow; 08-05-2013 at 06:17 AM.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:33 AM   #165 (permalink)
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Until society accepts that there's no distinction, using terms like marriage doesn't do much more than perpetuate the division between both sides.

I think it would be much better to approach it as a civil union, at least for now. That in itself stops the debate about the term marriage which is clouding the minds of the religious-right.
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Dear Blacks:

You cannot drink from my water fountain.
This. Separate but equal is not separate.

Michael is right that everything should be a civil union, 2-person, 3-person, whatever.

One step at a time though!

First no god, then no marriage, then no baby and the baby carriage.
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Old 08-05-2013, 10:44 AM   #166 (permalink)
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This. Separate but equal is not separate.

Michael is right that everything should be a civil union, 2-person, 3-person, whatever.

One step at a time though!
Right. I think the best step for now is call it a civil union so the people who have religious or other beliefs against same-sex marriages have nothing to disagree with. In the end, everyone gets what they want (and deserve).

My fear that calling it marriage is just going to drag everything on and on and in the meantime prevent people from the legal and other rights they deserve.
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:59 PM   #167 (permalink)
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My fear that calling it marriage is just going to drag everything on and on and in the meantime prevent people from the legal and other rights they deserve.
Well, stop being afraid! It's working, with calling it marriage. The Defense of Marriage Act is gone. Gay marriage exists in 13 states. That's 13 more than it was 10 years ago.

There are probably a lot of people like you out there, thinking that there aren't as many people like you out there. The same way before Obama was elected, a huge chunk of people said things like "I don't think this country is ready to elect a black president." It might have been a majority, people who were ready to vote for a black president but pessimistic about the rest of the population.

Same thing here, I think. More than 50% of our population does support gay marriage now. It's fine to call it marriage then, I think.

Ultimately of course, the words mean less than the rights conferred by and associated with those words. But words do have power, and having a separate term for separate people does imply second-class citizenship, so why not use the power that words DO have, especially given how much progress HAS been made with that approach.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:39 PM   #168 (permalink)
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lol i didn't realise your original word wasn't a word

i was making fun of what i thought was my ignorance.

turns out, i'm a fucking genius.
I wouldn't go THAT far but I hear ya
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:46 PM   #169 (permalink)
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Dear Blacks:

You cannot drink from my water fountain. You can have your own water fountain, I guess, because I'm so magnanimous and open minded, but it's offensive to me for you to call it that because /my/ water fountain, while exactly the same as yours, is totally bitchin' and sacred. Please feel free to thank me for my solution to your keeping your big gross mouths off where i put mine.
I understand the point you're trying to make but that has nothing to do with legal rights themselves.

You're approaching this from someone who is married and haven't had to deal with all the issues that same-sex couples deal with. You already have your civil rights whether you're an atheist or not. You're married. This is a real question, not the normal rhetorical ones I ask at times -

Given the fact that the objective is to give couples their civil rights would you rather call it marriage or a civil union?

If you keep insisting that the term must be marriage, you run into opposition from (most) republicans, (most) religious people, etc. In the meantime your opposition to the "definition" of that term is delaying the right that human beings have.

If you approach and define it as simply a civil union, which it is, everyone can get their civil rights without the argument that it's against their religious beliefs.

Many think civil rights is a very general term. One of many experiences I've had is very personal. About 9 years ago my step-brother was hit by a drunk driver. While he was in ICU, his partner of 6 years was denied seeing him much less the "privilege" of getting any updates about his condition. Thankfully I could see him and I told the hospital staff they were cousins.

That was 9 years ago and it really opened my eyes. I often think that if it was approached as "civil union" rather than "marriage", everyone would have civil rights by now. I also think that if they owned a business together, or have raised a child together, or either has a legal will, or have done anything else that "traditional" married couple can do, their legal rights would amount to nothing.

Sure Myq is right that it IS working and I totally agree that it is. To me it's not happening fast enough because of the term, definition, and beliefs that the word marriage creates.

I hope that people (particularly our representatives, congress-people, etc) start approaching our rights as people more from a civic standpoint. I'm all for Myq having 18 wives that includes 4 chairs, 2 rollercoasters, and a feral tiger, as long as everyone consents.

I'm kidding Myq

Last edited by DJQuad; 08-05-2013 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 08-05-2013, 08:16 PM   #170 (permalink)
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Same thing here, I think. More than 50% of our population does support gay marriage now. It's fine to call it marriage then, I think.

Ultimately of course, the words mean less than the rights conferred by and associated with those words. But words do have power, and having a separate term for separate people does imply second-class citizenship, so why not use the power that words DO have, especially given how much progress HAS been made with that approach.
I know I'm replying to these out of order.. heh.

How much of the population do you think would support civil unions if it wasn't called marriage? I'd venture to say literally everyone. I agree completely with everything you're saying as far as not having a separate term. I agree that eventually, it will happen. To me it's just not happening fast enough because of the terms themselves.

I hope you're right. That the terms have power and therefore, progress. I just hope that it doesn't take away many rights people have in the meantime by insisting that we stick to the word marriage.
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