49: The Bottom

[magentamalibu]

To me its clear. Addiction is a monster with tentacles that run through generations, through loved ones and near ones. Its a serious disease and has to be faced with courage.
I relate to a lot in Hennessy's account, and for that same reason I can hear the bullshit. Sometimes we just have to stop lying specially to ourselves. I am also an addict with a history of lying and cheating when spinning out. There is no rational explanation, but the best thing is there is no need to explain. Accept that it is so and then do what you have to do to be able to have a life with real connection. Its a constant process.
I am grateful that more and more people are willing to talk about it openly, Ive been listening since 2005 and your experiences (Keith, Chemda, Andrea, Danny, Hennessy) in dealing with your monsters (addiction, depression, whatever face they have) have been so strengthening and as much a support to me as the NA and ACA groups which have saved my life.
Chemda, I think you are taking care of yourself and that is the most important thing, I think it is admirable and I cheer you on!
Hennessy I think you might need to stop explaining and analyzing and just listen, show up to meetings with an open mind and a present heart and cut the bull shit. You don't need to prolong this, but I guess you'll be ready when you're ready.
I appreciate the openness in sharing your stories. That in itself is so valuable. I think the more we talk and share as a society, the more chances we have of being healthy individuals.

P.S. Today I am 3 years (and eleven months) clean.

[flerchin]

I would never have guessed. Sad and disappointed.

[EricJsScreename]

It sounds like Hennessy is trying to take responsibility for what he's done, and I'm no expert but it does sound like he has a long way to go (but headed in the right direction). One thing that points to a long way to go - it's not about the several specific things he is pointing out that are screw ups it's all the lies and deception overall. There's a vibe that it's not apologies for specific screw ups, it's the overall actions, if that makes sense.

[FingerLakes]

It's hard to have any reaction besides "wow that's super fucked up."
Makes sense now that the out of no where reaction, to us listeners, of chemda kicking henny out came after years of what sounds like SLA trasnsgressions.

I feel bad for Andrea and everyone else. *hugs *

[iamgrilledcheese]

I didn't want to finish listening to this episode. I've had a partner do all these things to me and I can tell you my sympathy well is empty.

I feel a great deal of anger towards Hennessy about this. There's a quote I've heard from someone about how to change: it's not about you. When you feel the pull to self-pity and and want to take that out on other people, think about them and how that hurts them. Do this every day, and train yourself out of the habit of selfishness.

[memecherry]

Originally Posted by Apia

I dont see any hate for Hennessy here. I told him not to hate himself. Hate is never helpful.
But his behaviour was shitty. That doesnt mean that he is a shitty human.

I agree // I also know how it feels to hate yourself even when surrounded by amazing people // ultimately I don’t want Hennessy to fall deeper in the hole & make permanent choices that might hurt him more than he has hurt others & himself along the way...

I’ve danced with the demon of self sabotage & self harm but I’m still alive to type this...

want to make sure that regardless of how shitty Henny has been...

want to try to help him to be around to try to be better....

[O-mizzy]

So I've listened to this episode and read through the comments. I don't want to post something repetitive so I'll only make points I think may have not been touched on before...
1) I don't think what Hennessy did was disingenuous, but I do believe it was a little premature. I work in the mental health field and, from listening to Hennessy talk about what happened, he still has a ton of defenses up. This leads to that effect at the end of the episode where the audience may feel like they have more questions than answers and that Hennessy's rendition of events seems to have holes in it. I don't think this is purposeful, I think this is subconsciously occurring to protect Hennessy from some of the deeper truths that he may have not had a chance to process yet. The inability to intellectualize the events (to be able to tell it like a story rather than jumbled up flashes of narratives that may not exactly run with each other - which is how we experience life and especially how people recollect intense moments) is a reason why this would not make for a good podcast. I think Chemda, being a professional, knew this (maybe not the technical words for it) and therefore abstained from discussing the relationship on her network. I don't think this episode really sheds light on anything other than providing some raw thought processes that Hennessy has.
2) The mere fact that Hennessy posted this while not completely getting a chance to process what he was going to talk about ironically falls into line with much of the content of what he discussed - the desire to do things because he feels thats what other people would want. This internal struggle and pressure leads to Hennessy forcing himself into situations that he may not be ready for. It also leads to the lying as he feels conflicted about what he truly wants versus what he believes is best for him. With further exploration of these conflicts, he may eventually be able to live a more honest self, but just receiving mass feedback from audiences listening to this podcast is going to be counterproductive - it is just more pressure to behave according to perceived external influences rather than your own true desires. This podcast mimics the similar issue with the film he put out earlier which he references as being a difficult experience and something he may have not been ready for. Hennessy, I would try to really consider if you want to keep this up or if you should take it down. I hope you have a good therapist who can work with you through this.
3) There seems to be this constant feeling of "I hate my body" and he has not had a chance to really understand why he participated in the brief trysts that he did. Now, I am not your therapist, but something to consider - if you hate your body or have conflicted feelings about who you are and what you want - it is very difficult to be in a relationship with someone because you have to essentially "make room" for them. This is not to say you are selfish, but it is hard to see the other person fully as their own individual human being when you yourself don't have a steady sense of self. Meaning, a lot of times, if we don't know ourselves, we often take parts of ourselves (thoughts we may have) and put it onto the other person. So instead of thinking that "I have a feeling that I am unlovable" you may instead think Chemda could not possibly love you. Chemda is her own person and can have thoughts that don't align with yours, meaning that even if you have an unstable image of yourself, Chemda may have a consistent image of you and that's why she can continue to be supportive through rough times. This leads to conflict since you are still unsure and you will escalate behaviors to make her uncertain of who you are as well - so now you both feel the same way - jeez I hope this makes sense.
4) Flirting and connecting with strangers is a method to gain mastery over some type of traumatic or conflicted past. The useful thing about strangers is that you don't know them completely, so you can project whatever you want on to them. I can think some dude I talk to online is this total dom guy who's gonna throw me around and forcibly submit me (which may be something I consider hot) - but that guy on the other end may be a single father who came out as gay at the age of 45, is conflicted about how he has lived his life, and is trying to reconnect with his kids. Totally different than what I see in him, but it doesn't matter because I don't know anything about him so I can project on the "hot dom top" image instead. The more I would get to know him though, the less I would be able to project what I want to recreate with him, and the less interested I would become in engaging with him. This is why its much easier for people to play out fantasies with strangers than with their significant others.

Some things to think about - I hate to do armchair psychology, but I've been listening to KATG since the double digit episodes ("Crazy White People") and feel like I've gotten to know the KATG family slowly over time.

All the best to you Hennessy. You definitely have more work to do - but keep going in the right direction and consider if it's really worth putting yourself out there for the sake of others rather than doing it because it would truly help you.

[Pintman]

It's time to lock this thread. Time for everybody to take care of business and move on.

[Keith]

Pintman already said his peace. Why are people still talking?

[craigklein]

Originally Posted by Pintman

It's time to lock this thread. Time for everybody to take care of business and move on.

...and that's another thing!

This PINTMAN guy.
Don't worry bub, your truth sandwich is comin out hot!