1213: Blackout

[Junkenstein]

The obvious answer is no.

The WTC attackers were fundamentalists = fundamentalism breeds from islam

Plus Mosques are a point of attraction foir terrorist cells and Imams are recruiters.

They can go pray somewhere else.

And i wouldnt want any type oif church there either. It's a place of mourning, you dont need temples there.

[DWarrior]

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

The obvious answer is no.

The WTC attackers were fundamentalists = fundamentalism breeds from islam

Plus Mosques are a point of attraction foir terrorist cells and Imams are recruiters.

They can go pray somewhere else.

And i wouldnt want any type oif church there either. It's a place of mourning, you dont need temples there.

This reads like sarcasm up until the last line, so I'm confused. FYI, there are two churches right across the street ground zero, at least four more churches within a block radius (varying denominations), a synagogue a block away, and a "christian science reading room" nearby.

Nobody's talking about building a place of worship ON ground zero.

[Junkenstein]

Originally Posted by mowzie

I hope this is sarcasm, but if not... I'm not sure if you intended it this way but it sounds like you're saying fundamentalism ONLY breeds from Islam, which is obviously not true... should we be shutting down evangelical Christian mega-churches because they are spreading messages of homophobia and creationism? !

Fundamentalism breeds from religion, of course. Or politics, or any type of belief. But the specific fundamentalism that was behind the WTC was islamic not christian or anarchist.

And yes i would gladly shut down Christian churches if i could do that, but i also believe in freedom of cult. Just keep religion in places where it soesnt hurt.

Originally Posted by mowzie

Also, yes, mosques have been the source of terrorist cells in the past, but telling them to go pray somewhere else is a little bizarre... where exactly are they supposed to go? And I'm not sure if the rules surrounding places of worship in Islam, but it seems to me that anywhere they congregate could be seen as a makeshift mosque... again, I can only hope these comments were a joke!

I have no probnlem having a mosque a few steps from my house from what i'm concerned.

But Ground Zero is a place of remembrance and mouìrning. So having a place that symbolizes one of the many driving factors of what caused 9/11 close to it, is ridiculous.

And, btw, mosques are STILL recrutiment centres for terrorist cells. even in small countries where terrorism and fundamentalism are dormant.

I spoke, not long ago, to a recent muslim immigrant that was having a rough life in Italy. Before his conversion to Islam he had alcohol issues and all sorts of problems. When he came to Italy he was soon contacted by the local imam who helped him convert and get clean. And then gave him tapes of recruiters and lectures on how the true believers are the weapon of allah against the corrupted western society.

He also told me that he has a nice life now but for a whilw he would have loved top be one of those guys that kill themselves for Islam.

I'm not saying that ALL mosques are recruitment centres. I'm saying that recruitment cntres start in mosques. Like bigotry, racism and mysoginy start in catholic churches.

So, if i had a place in my town where thousands of people died because of funfamentalism and hatred, i'd leave the place where they died CLEAN of any temple, church of any kind. No christian, No muslim, nothing. If someone nedds to pray, they can do it by themselves. They dont need a temple.

[Badger]

Originally Posted by mowzie

should we be shutting down evangelical Christian mega-churches because they are spreading messages of homophobia and creationism?

I vote yes.

[Junkenstein]

Originally Posted by DWarrior

This reads like sarcasm up until the last line, so I'm confused. FYI, there are two churches right across the street ground zero, at least four more churches within a block radius (varying denominations), a synagogue a block away, and a "christian science reading room" nearby.

Were the WTC attackers Christian Science Readers?

And no, in a place that holds so much meaning for people, any form of temple is just an exploitation of their grief. No churches of any kind.

[Zomniac]

Originally Posted by mowzie

I hope this is sarcasm, but if not... I'm not sure if you intended it this way but it sounds like you're saying fundamentalism ONLY breeds from Islam, which is obviously not true... should we be shutting down evangelical Christian mega-churches because they are spreading messages of homophobia and creationism?

Fundamentalist Islamic terrorists are a breed apart from the VERY few cliques of fundamentalist wacko Christians, or other religions for that matter. I wish I could find the study that I read on this, but it essentially stated that you would be some order of magnitute (I can't remember the exact number) more likely being killed by an Islamic Extremist than any other religion or non-religious group.

Make no mistake, extremist Islam is organized and very good at what they do. They are NOT simply preaching creationism, or "god hates fags" or whatever, they are teaching children how to strap on bombs and go to the places to get the maximum body count and maxiumum amount of fear.

On the bright side, Christian extremists seem to be a very rare breed and targeted to their hate, not so blanket as to want to take down a nation. And for the most part they seem to like staying in their compounds. If they do take anything out, most likely it's an abortion clinic or a doctor, but even that is rarer still, comparatively speaking, of course.

I don't think I've ever heard of other religious extremism at all. Can you imagine a Buddhist extremist? No you cannot. Mainly because they preach peace.

As for me, I'm Agnostic. I would never bomb anyone for not believing the way I do. DAMN YOU... for not knowing for sure, you asshole... nope, no extremism bells ringing there.

Edit: Again, let's be very clear here. Islamic Extremeists have the body count. Even more than the Holocaust, Cruisaides (and other Christian Extremism), the world's genetic cleansings (excluding those caused by Islamic Extremism), and any other large body count causing disaster driven by madmen, religion, organization or government, combined. I'm not being ignorant here, Islam may not be as ancient as other religions (it's only 600 years, give or take, younger than Christianity), but the extreme fringes of the religion has been very busy in history. It's frightening and sad, but there it is.

[Junkenstein]

Originally Posted by mowzie

It has already been established in this thread that the mosque isn't going in right at ground zero, and so I'd be interested to know just how close it actually is... it begs the question what the 'radius of mourning' so to speak should be... putting ANYTHING one block away seems insensitively close, but how about three blocks? Ten? It gets messy, and I still don't think it is fair to prevent a likely decent group of Muslims from worshipping close to where they live based on the violent acts of a few people.

Anybody can pray to whichever god they want, anywhere they want. But they dont need places that colllect money and exploit people's mourning to do that.

A prayer is between you and your god. The church is there just to collect your offer and indoctrinate. In a placer like Ground Zero people tend to rememeber the tragedy and their loss and grief. So the temples arounf it were built to attaract those people, and use their pain for their own profit.

This is what I think, not a law. My opinion is that there should be no church, temple or mosque in the area surrounding ground zero. And since the attackers WERE muslims, the presence of a Mosque in the area would be even MORE wrong.

[Creamsicle]

I don't think it's a big deal to build one there personally, but having only experienced 9/11 through watching it on CNN, I don't think my opinion is all that valuable.

Also the extremists blow themselves up in Israel for the chance at killing only a few jews, so I'm sure they could care less about blowing up a mosque if it would mean killing a few hundred people. They would probably think they are doing those muslims a favor by killing them in the process of killing other New Yorker's.

I think the better question is what religious group or Imam or whatever has the balls to propose building one there. All it is going to do is rile people up and get more people upset at your religion.

[DWarrior]

A prayer is between you and your god. The church is there just to collect your offer and indoctrinate. In a placer like Ground Zero people tend to rememeber the tragedy and their loss and grief. So the temples arounf it were built to attaract those people, and use their pain for their own profit.

Here is the exact location of the proposed mosque, and you can see the mosque isn't overlooking ground zero or anything, it's 2 blocks away. If two blocks aren't ok, then how far is? Are we just going to decide on an arbitrary number?

[Badger]

Lookie, The Queen was there yesterday...



The New Yorker expressing shock that she didn't even sweat made me laugh (I also maintain her drawers were shitless throughout).