1219: Bonehead

[bongthegong]

An old picture of Muhammad I drew.

[Subsonix]

Downloading TV shows that have aired in the US with all the beeping SSSSSSSSSSSSUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKSSSSSSSSSS .

FREE SPEECH! FREE THE FBOMB!

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Govneh

Granted, the Catholics haven't taken to killing anyone for molesting consecrated eucharist (they're too preoccupied with other molestations) but the offense to the religion is the same.

Originally Posted by Keith

Your "granted" is a very important granted.

I think what makes it hard for me to agree with Keith is that I see it as two separate issues, where it seems like he sees it as one.

1) Muhammad shouldn't be drawn. This is a belief of a religion that I should respect--or at least, respect the fact that it is their belief.

2) I get to kill you if you do something my religion says is wrong. This is a belief that directly affects the human rights of another person, and is wrong no matter how hard your religion believes it.

Of course no one needs to draw Muhammad. And artists may be simply trying to "push buttons". Anyone who argues that it is their right to draw Muhammad is being silly and culturally insensitive. But it is their right to do something without worrying about the arbitrary punishment of being killed, no matter whose religious beliefs are used as the yardstick.

Something Chemda said also struck me as odd. I may be misinterpreting her, but it seemed like she said, "It's okay for us to make fun of religion, because we're funny. They're just doing it to try to make a point that they can." Maybe she intended to expand on that but the conversation went another way, but I found that a weird point of view.

Finally, Keith's cartoon should be Muhammad throwing stones at Jesus, who is drawing a cartoon of Muhammad.

[beerchick]

I love Keith's Mel impression - I think it seriously rivals Samantha.

[King of Assholes]

Originally Posted by Govneh

Re: Draw Muhammad day

I just can't see where you draw the line, Keith. What's the difference between drawing Muhammad for funsies, and serving communion on the cruise ship?

Both take a sacred rule of a religion and willfully violate it for shits and giggles. Don't get me wrong, I'm not religious and I stand behind both 'violations', but I think you're being a hypocrite by condemning one and condoning the other. Both ridicule silly beliefs and both generate hatred by those who would believe in them. Granted, the Catholics haven't taken to killing anyone for molesting consecrated eucharist (they're too preoccupied with other molestations) but the offense to the religion is the same.

There actually is a difference between the two, more than one difference in fact. First of all it would take quite some time to find a Catholic that would kill you for doing that, it would be a lot easier to find a Muslim who would kill you for that. Secondly one is shitting on/mocking a custom, the other is shitting on a religion's most important prophet.

I'm Catholic, not one that lost their religion, and I didn't really care about them handing out communion on the cruise. All I thought was "that's not nice". Now had Keith jerked off all over a crucifix then it would be a different story, I'd be pretty pissed, and I think Keith would even draw the line at that. Still though, I wouldn't be willing to blow myself up over it, and I can't say I know one single Catholic that would either.

[Eightball]

SO TV starts using the Fbomb freely... Of course this will affect kids, and eventually their parents who will learn to accept the usage of these "sacred unspeakable" words. This will be a multi-generational change, but eventually we will diffuse the nastyness of saying FUCK, or SHIT, or whatever, and saying such words will will bear no more emotional connection than saying truckstop, or bed.
So where does that leave us?
A world without curse words is just not as interesting. Having the status to say them, or using them in the wrong moment, is both a sign of social position and humor.
A world without cussing becomes bland, mushy, and I can't believe that I'm still drunk from last night.

So lets hold some things sacred for the sake of comedic relief.

[chris233]

With regards to drawing Mohammad.

You have a right to practice your own religion. You have a right to congregate. You have a right to free speech. You do not have the right to not be offended. Your civil liberties stop when you begin encroaching on others freedom.

Me drawing Mohammad does not stop you from practicing your religion. It doesn't stop you from telling me what an insensitive idiot I am. Muslims threatening death (and often following through) is most definitely encroaching on my right to freedom of speech.

People aren't drawing these cartoons just to be insensitive. They're doing it because this is a very real encroachment on their freedoms. By drawing Mohammad they're bringing more attention to the issue.

There is also parallels to Christians doing this as well. Creationism in schools and the attempts to constitutionally ban gay marriage. The arguments for both lie only in religion, and there are fundamental Christians trying to make these things part of every day life for every american. This encroaches on my freedom to marry and uses public tax dollars to teach religion in public schools.

[Positive Control]

Drawing Muhammad is offensive to Muslims. Taking the Lord's name in vain is offensive to my religion. That means that I don't do it, not that I expect people of different beliefs and backgrounds not to do it. Can you imagine getting bombed, beaten, or killed just because you express a statement of exasperation? Because we practice freedoms we are targets of terrorist groups. It is offensive to them that we are free and let women show their ankles. Should we give that up to appease those willing to act violently against us? You say we should be tolerant and understand that drawing Muhammad is offensive - perhaps they should be understanding that it isn't offensive to others. I'm just glad I live in America, where I have freedom of speech; unless I'm hurting someone's feelings of course.

[Positive Control]

Originally Posted by King of Assholes

There actually is a difference between the two, more than one difference in fact. First of all it would take quite some time to find a Catholic that would kill you for doing that, it would be a lot easier to find a Muslim who would kill you for that. Secondly one is shitting on/mocking a custom, the other is shitting on a religion's most important prophet.

I'm Catholic, not one that lost their religion, and I didn't really care about them handing out communion on the cruise. All I thought was "that's not nice". Now had Keith jerked off all over a crucifix then it would be a different story, I'd be pretty pissed, and I think Keith would even draw the line at that. Still though, I wouldn't be willing to blow myself up over it, and I can't say I know one single Catholic that would either.

One is shitting on/mocking a custom, the other on a religion's most important prophet? Isn't the Eucharist, the body of GOD, also a representation of Christianity's most important figure?!? C'mon!

[Junkenstein]

I have to say, being a non-religious person and a supporter of freedom of speech, i've always been on the side of cartoonist drawing Muhammad. Not really6 about the freedom of speech aspect of it, since i mostly think that people abuse "freedom of speech" as a shield for cruelty and intolerance. I supported them because i think that satyre is supposed to be aggressive towards the ridiculous side of institutions, and nothing is more ridiculous than an institution that has people rioting on the streets because of a drawing.

That said, the whole drawing muhammad thing, here in Italy, has been used for a while by a very racist and anti-arabic party, to make a statement against arabs and their beliefs.

The same people who were pro-drawings, were guys throwing pig shit on mosques.

I am pro-ridulizing barbaric and backwards cults. But i dont want to be in the same team with racist idiots who use "freedom of speech" as a way to spew hate.