1360: For the Love of God

[Blitzgal]

I think I would lean more towards decriminalization rather than legalization, in the hopes that women who need help would feel safer in doing so (whether it is medical attention, police assistance, etc). But Keith and Junk raise perfectly valid objections to why legalization would not make the criminal element and the outright danger go away. And Keith is very well-versed in this issue when he identifies the fact that for a lot of women there are drugs involved, they get thrown into it when they are still young teens. Shit, he sounds like some of my women's studies professors from college when he talks about it. (Prostitution is a big issue that feminists argue over -- some are for decriminalization, others are against it for basically the very reasons that Keith outlined)

But my question to you guys is -- what should we do to reform the matter? The current method of street level sting operations to throw the hookers in jail overnight, or the opposite to get the johns for a night, obviously do nothing to change the problem. It's similar to the problem with the war on drugs, when cops waste a lot of time going after the street level dealers.

[Junkenstein]

i'm not saying it will cease to exist, it wont. but so are other crimes and wrong things. that doesnt mean they're ok. plus, if i have to use Amsterdam as an example, most girls i talked to, felt that their situation was still shitty. the main point was that their income was taxed, so dome do it illegally to avoid that. and the benfits arte ideal, but not 100% sure.

the brothel owners are usually just like pimps too.

as far as porn goes, i think its wrong too. i think it should be way more controlled and less glamourized.

and as for the doctorsleep thing.... the girls could stop midway or go on legal ways if he acts wrongly. a prositute would just have to take it.

i tried to see the other side on this. i cant. we can argue for days i just cant

[Blitzgal]

I understand that you know that it will never go away. But, the issue is that our current method of policing the issue doesn't do anything to keep these women any safer, and in fact it places barriers to them. As you said, a prostitute "just has to take it." Well, that's partly because they can't go to the police for help because they'll get arrested, too.

[Junkenstein]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

Okay? A lot of jobs are some sort of abuse made better by money.
.

blah blah blah.

dont pull the mysoginist card on me. all i'm saying is that the whole prostitution scne is creepy, just like the drug scene. i cant accept that any society allows that to happen freely, its wrong.

i dont give a fuck if its pathriarchal, the red quarter in amsterdam is a sad shithole of misery and creepiness. i dont want all the world to be that way. point your finger all you want

[Cretaceous Bob]

It's a really fucked warped argument when you start saying something should be illegal because shitty circumstances dumped somebody into a job that they wouldn't have taken had things turned out better for them. That makes absolutely no sense. That has never been any sort of grounds for criminalizing something.

Let me follow this line of logic here: men are abusive and women are going to be abused, so in order to protect women, we have to help them by criminalizing the actions they take because of abuse.

Oh man, hookers should be so grateful to all you white knight men out there that protected them by tossing them in jail occasionally and busting up their ability to make money while still leaving them in the situation that makes them whores.

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

i'm not saying it will cease to exist, it wont. but so are other crimes and wrong things. that doesnt mean they're ok. plus, if i have to use Amsterdam as an example, most girls i talked to, felt that their situation was still shitty. the main point was that their income was taxed, so dome do it illegally to avoid that. and the benfits arte ideal, but not 100% sure.

As far as I can tell your idea of what should be illegal is precisely your whim. You have absolutely no foundational philosophy behind determining crime, just your own moral compass. I would say that women and minorities all over America should be grateful that America stopped determining its laws by the same way you do.

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

as far as porn goes, i think its wrong too. i think it should be way more controlled and less glamourized.

Still dumb.

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

and as for the doctorsleep thing.... the girls could stop midway or go on legal ways if he acts wrongly. a prositute would just have to take it.

Still doesn't make any sense. You're just saying bullshit. If a woman can take legal actions because how someone acted during sex, that still applies to a prostitute. Prostitutes could still stop midway. You're just making nonsense up. You've never convinced anybody because none of it makes a bit of sense. It's funny how those two things coincide.

[Junkenstein]

never tried to conince anyone, i am the one who never got convinced. you might be right, but i still think that its fucked up and creepy and ill never be in favor of it, ever.

personally i think most of pro-legalization people are clients who want a free pass to be with whores.

[jorjo]

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

never tried to conince anyone, i am the one who never got convinced. you might be right, but i still think that its fucked up and creepy and ill never be in favor of it, ever.

personally i think most of pro-legalization people are clients who want a free pass to be with whores.

Can you explain to me why the porn you like is ok, but not the porn you don't like, not strippers and not prostitution?

Can you explain to me any benefits to sex workers that result from their profession being illegal?

Can you explain to me any drawbacks to sex workers that would result from their profession being legalised?

As for pro-legalisation people wanting a free pass - come on Junk - seriously?

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

blah blah blah.

dont pull the mysoginist card on me. all i'm saying is that the whole prostitution scne is creepy, just like the drug scene. i cant accept that any society allows that to happen freely, its wrong.

i dont give a fuck if its pathriarchal, the red quarter in amsterdam is a sad shithole of misery and creepiness. i dont want all the world to be that way. point your finger all you want

Oh man, and obviously Bob wants misery everywhere. Obviously Amsterdam is an isolated incident of misery and creepiness that isn't at all similar to the whoreless utopian places where prostitution is illegal!

How about we throw some janitors in jail too because they make you feel bad? You sure as shit aren't helping them, but at least you're not okay with them degrading themselves because of the shit situation life stuck them in.

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

never tried to conince anyone, i am the one who never got convinced. you might be right, but i still think that its fucked up and creepy and ill never be in favor of it, ever.

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

i discussed this issue a million times, and it gets nowhere since the people who are pro-legalization of prostitution dont seem to see my point

So... you noticed that you not convincing people didn't convince people...? I don't know why you're expecting people to get your point when you're not making it to them.

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

personally i think most of pro-legalization people are clients who want a free pass to be with whores.

When you lack substance, make up baseless smears!

[Junkenstein]

how many times i have to make my point? i am not saying that legalizing wouldnt have benefits, i'm sure it would but after working with the girls in the red light district for a bit i got so disgusted by what i saw that i just cannot be in favour of it. and i'm not in favour of pornograohy either, still i use it so i'm guilty on that.

and yes,m i think the legalization thing is in large part pushed by people who want to go with whores freely and have a rosy vision of brothels.

look, lets say you guys are right. i didnt even want to post my view. i got snarked at lately for the fact that i argue here and i want to stop, since i dont get any fun out of it anymore. so you all win.

[Cretaceous Bob]

In my opinion, all forms of social progression in the Western world root back to The Enlightenment, so abandoning logic and reason for gut moral feelings as foundations of government is arguing against every single bit of progress society has made in last few hundred years.

It's perfectly fine for you to have whatever feelings about whatever subject, but that's a very different thing from saying other people should be lorded over according to your feelings.

It took a long time to get our society where it is and I don't take it very lightly when you attack the very foundation of progress because some whores made you feel bad.