1410: No Dancing

[BrianAlt]

I've been thinking about this whole Lauren man/woman/bisexual thing for some time now and I've hesitated to comment because this is a very personal thing. It is about how one person feels. No one can say it's right or wrong, it's how she (I mean Lauren, to be clear and that's how I'm most comfortable addressing her) feels.

That said, I have to relate this to myself. I love women. I love everything about women. As Chemda said on the show, I can't even picture myself kissing a guy. The thought is really repulsive. However, I do not see myself as a "typical guy". I have feelings, I have emotions. Plays can move me to tears as can books, even music can sometimes and rarely movies. However, I don't enjoy expressing my emotions. Why? Fear of reprisal, of teasing, of getting my ass kicked. I do not see this as a "typical guy" thing.

In my relationship, I'm the planner, I'm the romantic, I'm the one looking for the next way to enjoy life together. As far as I can see, most men sit on their ass and wait for the woman to do these things. Most women, it seems to me, are upset that their man doesn't do these things enough. I'm upset that my wife doesn't do these things enough. Honestly speaking, in some respects I sometimes feel like the woman in the relationship.

I've already eluded to (in another thread) the fact that my sex life wasn't where I wanted it to be. I woke up one morning and realized I'm going to have to take control of that also. Is that a more manly trait? I don't know. All I know is that it's not typical.

KATG listeners may not be typical, so this may be preaching to the choir, but all I know is this...

I don't feel like a man. I don't feel like a woman (at all!). All I feel like is ME.

So, Lauren, honestly, you don't know if you feel like a man. All you know is that you feel something is a bit off. I have a feeling you feel that way more than I do. But feeling like a man? I think you just feel like you and you think you are different than those around you. So, be you and hopefully the rest falls in place.

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by BrianAlt

I've already eluded to

Alluded.

[Junkenstein]

sorry Bri, that sounds very pretty but it doesnt really make any sense.

i dont think the transgender issue is about feeling like being part of the "idea of man/womanhood" as you seem to be pointing.

I spoke to transexuals (post and pre op), usually menh and their point wasnt just about feeling "off". it was about knowing that if they were born with the opposite gender's body, they would be ok and more comfortable with themselves. you make it sound like "being confused" and thats a very slippery assumption.

Men can feel like tghy arent real men, or attracted to women, or like to wear women's clothes, or just "off". But people who are Transgender usually know what's off and how they would be better.

So yeah, nothing personal but your point is completely off in this case.

[BrianAlt]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

Alluded.

Yeah. Oh well.

[BrianAlt]

Junk, you are wrong. Because that's how I feel about the issue.

And I'm not saying anyone, including me, is confused. Frustrated, sure, maybe that's the case. But not confused. It's not confusing when you are what you are.

Additionally, I'm not sure you're right about transexuals. There are post op people that regret their decision. Others that never regret it. How do you explain that? You can never be 100% sure. You can THINK you know and you can turn out to be right. But if you are 100% sure, you're only trying to convince yourself.

[Huggie]

Regardless of Gender/sex. Im sure of one thing. That Lauren and Chemda's relationship will last longer than Keith and Cat's.

Because Keith is a bumb.

[Junkenstein]

im just saying that all transexuals i spoke to, said that their insides werent matching the outside. whether an operation was the solution or not, its a nother point.

so i dont think telling them "just be you" wouldve been a solution. you can feel however you want but you also said "lauren, you dont know if you feel like a man" which is silly.

She stated how she felt like that since the day she was born, how she always thought she was a "boy without a penis", how even after she was sent to "corrective therapy" she still felt that inside she was a man....

Id say she knows very well. But you come and tell her "you dont really know, just be you". man, i know youre better than that. thats very close to Huggie's post, but phrased in a nicer way.

[BrianAlt]

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

She stated how she felt like that since the day she was born, how she always thought she was a "boy without a penis", how even after she was sent to "corrective therapy" she still felt that inside she was a man....

I do not doubt that's how she feels. And I'm not trying to convince her otherwise. In fact, just the opposite. I completely believe that's how she feels. All I know is that I don't think of myself as a "boy with a penis" any more than I think of myself as a "boy with an arm".

I won't say more, because I don't want this to spin into something other than supportive. I am being supportive. Possibly in the only way I can be.

[DWarrior]

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

but you also said "lauren, you dont know if you feel like a man" which is silly.

I remember saying this before when it came up earlier, but: I don't really know how being a man feels (ignoring the "feelin' like a Real Man, fuck yeah!" stuff). And I'm pretty sure I'm 100% straight male, and a "typical guy" by BrianAlt's description (in addition to being a nerd).

[Junkenstein]

i think the "being sure you're 100% straight male" is the point.

and beyond that.

all i'm saying is that you cannot understand how it feels to be a transgender unless you're one, its a genetic thing, not a state of mind. Thats what a lot of people seem to miss. Being gay or straight is one thing. Being that way is a whole different issue, it has nothing to do with insecurity or choices.