1437: Into the Wild

[Fourbid]

Originally Posted by Snarky

Maybe it won't. I don't give a fuck either way.

You could have saved yourself a whole post then.

[Blitzgal]

Originally Posted by Snarky

Seemed like a better option to me than chemo, where they literally kill you and bring you back. This therapy is the opposite of chemo. They pump you full of green veggie juices to supercharge your immune system. I'm sure you can find a ton of negative info on it, but reading through some of the testemonials might change your opinon. Maybe it won't. I don't give a fuck either way.

Again, you leave out the constant coffee enemas they stick up your ass. Explain to me how that detoxifies your body. Especially considering that this treatment has left many people with bleeding bowels.

In 1990, a study done in Austria did have limited beneficial results when following a diet regimen similar to the Gerson plan, in that cancer patients lived an additional two years compared to those who did not follow the diet. When you're dying of cancer, two additional years of life is great. But they still died of cancer. Claims that this diet "reverses" or "cures" cancer are sheer bullshit. Unfortunately there currently is no cure for cancer.

[Snarky]

Originally Posted by Blitzgal

Again, you leave out the constant coffee enemas they stick up your ass. Explain to me how that detoxifies your body. Especially considering that this treatment has left many people with bleeding bowels.

In 1990, a study done in Austria did have limited beneficial results when following a diet regimen similar to the Gerson plan, in that cancer patients lived an additional two years compared to those who did not follow the diet. When you're dying of cancer, two additional years of life is great. But they still died of cancer. Claims that this diet "reverses" or "cures" cancer are sheer bullshit. Unfortunately there currently is no cure for cancer.

I completely understand your skepticism, and my main focus isn’t to persuade you to think this is only option. I’m just wanting to make a point of understanding, because any type of holistic approach to medicine is so shunned in society. Did you know the library of congress won’t even publish a book on orthomolecular treatment, like the Gerson Therapy? I know it sounds crazy giving yourself enemas, let alone putting coffee in them. But enemas naturally detox the liver. The caffeine in the diluted organic coffee speeds up the detox process. It triggers your liver to release all the toxins. There are several studies showing the benefits of coffee enemas. (and all enemas carry the risk of anal rupture if you just “jab” the hose up there) The juice is then used to boost the immune system to pump out the toxins and repair the damage. What I don’t think is commonly understood is that our bodies have the ability to stand up against environmental toxins as long as our immune system can defend them. We won’t get cancer if we aren’t weak. We won’t be weak if we don’t eat shit foods. There are definitely genetic factors that play into cancer, and there are people who fail on the Gerson Therapy, just like with chemo. But think about the overall outlook of the options. Would you prefer to spend the last few years of your life with toxic chemicals running through your veins, puking ever time you think about food, and losing your hair? This therapy is not a common practice, but it does work.

Brave-Souls.com - Fighting Cancer Around the World
GRO - Effects of combined dietary regime on patients with malignant tumors
Gerson Therapy U.S Office of Technology Assessment

[DWarrior]

ok.

[Blitzgal]

I would much prefer to see studies outside of the Gerson Institute that show the many benefits of coffee enemas. What's odd to me about the whole coffee enema thing is that the Gerson Institute claims that its diet is meant to reduce your sodium and increase your potassium, which in turn.....does something good. At any rate, both the NIH and the American Cancer Society report that the coffee enema prompts your body to release potassium. So, you eat these foods to boost your potassium which is then leeched out of your body by the coffee at the other end. What does this accomplish? Do the "toxins" ride the potassium out of your body? That makes zero sense. Sounds more like you're going to get dehydrated at the best, and seriously fuck up your electrolytes at the worst.

I can fully believe that eating whole foods and limiting processed foods is going to make you healthier. But is it some magical cure that gives your body superpowers to fight cancer? No. He started with a good idea of eating well, and then went into la-la land with a bunch of pseudo-science.

Also, when you read the diet's requirements, they are a little psychotic, IMO:

The Gerson diet is a very strict low salt, organic fruit and vegetable diet. Each day you will need to

--Drink 20 pounds (about 9 kilos) of crushed fruit and vegetables (one glass of juice hourly, 13 times each day)
--Have 3 or 4 coffee enemas and perhaps also castor oil enemas
--Take potassium and other supplements, including vitamin B12, pancreatic enzymes and thyroid supplements

3 or 4 enemas PER DAY?!? This is why people are bleeding from their bowels and getting terrible bouts of colitis with this regimen. Holy Christ.

[mcbane89]

Originally Posted by Snarky

I completely understand your skepticism, and my main focus isn’t to persuade you to think this is only option. I’m just wanting to make a point of understanding, because any type of holistic approach to medicine is so shunned in society. Did you know the library of congress won’t even publish a book on orthomolecular treatment, like the Gerson Therapy? I know it sounds crazy giving yourself enemas, let alone putting coffee in them. But enemas naturally detox the liver. The caffeine in the diluted organic coffee speeds up the detox process. It triggers your liver to release all the toxins. There are several studies showing the benefits of coffee enemas. (and all enemas carry the risk of anal rupture if you just “jab” the hose up there) The juice is then used to boost the immune system to pump out the toxins and repair the damage. What I don’t think is commonly understood is that our bodies have the ability to stand up against environmental toxins as long as our immune system can defend them. We won’t get cancer if we aren’t weak. We won’t be weak if we don’t eat shit foods. There are definitely genetic factors that play into cancer, and there are people who fail on the Gerson Therapy, just like with chemo. But think about the overall outlook of the options. Would you prefer to spend the last few years of your life with toxic chemicals running through your veins, puking ever time you think about food, and losing your hair? This therapy is not a common practice, but it does work.

Brave-Souls.com - Fighting Cancer Around the World
GRO - Effects of combined dietary regime on patients with malignant tumors
Gerson Therapy U.S Office of Technology Assessment

Well, the reason orthomolecular treatment can't get published by the library of congress is probably because the military took it off their approved insurance program for military dependents when the US Defense Subcommittee did some thorough testing on the method and found it to be potentially dangerous. Orthomolecular treatment is essentially just mega doses of vitamins, with the theory being that these doses will correct imbalances in the subject, and fix any number of psychiatric, or physical ailments. The problem with that is vitamins, when taken in large enough doses, stop being vitamins and start becoming drugs that can be very harmful. For example, one of the vitamins used is B6, and the daily dose recommended is over 600 mg per day, which is well above what is known to cause nerve damage.

Another reason it isn't taken seriously is because the proponents refuse to do testing with a scientific methodology. To be taken seriously an idea has to be passed through a very organized, well documented, controlled series of tests. These tests have to be done over and over inside a particular lab. Then the data and methodology needs to be reviewed outside of that. Then the findings need to be replicated outside of that lab using the same methodology. Once all of these things are done, and verified, the theory is given scientific weight. Even then it depends on if we're talking cellular tests v animal tests v human tests. You have to be very careful when looking at something that says "testing shows" because yeah, sure, one test one time could have shown an effect and then it was never reproduced. Or the methodology was sloppy, or not released, or there was a small sample, it wasn't double blind, etc etc. This is the exact issue with orthomolecular treatments (and also the Gerson treatment from the little I just read), there are no controlled, methodolgically sound, testing. And in the case of orthomolecular it's been proven dangerous just on the scientific basis of the effects of vitamins in those doses.

[Blitzgal]

Well, you definitely lead me to some interesting reading. After reading the below linked blog post about the movie "The Beautiful Truth," someone in the comments linked to this Reuters article. Cancer rates have been declining since the 1990's. They attribute it to fewer people smoking, number one, but also improved cancer treatments.

Rate of new U.S. cancer cases drops for first time | Reuters

And here is a doctor describing that movie and its "woo" factor:

Science-Based Medicine » The (Not-So-)Beautiful (Un)Truth about the Gerson protocol and cancer quackery

And finally, THIS is something that simply cannot be overlooked. People like Charlotte Gerson claim that Big Pharma and the government are blocking access to "the Truth" due to greed. But these same people charge an ungodly amount of money for their treatments, as described in this comment posted to the blog post. Charlotte Gerson is taking advantage of dying people for financial gain just as surely as Big Pharma does. This man's father is dying of pancreatic cancer:

It is traumatic to see the Gerson treatment in action. It is so blindingly obvious that it is dangerous. The five enemas per day, the juice overdose (the special juicer costs $2500 ) and the injections seem to me to be a threat to his life. One month into treatment and I estimate that he has spent at the very least $20 000 with Gerson.

[Snarky]

Originally Posted by mcbane89

Well, the reason orthomolecular treatment can't get published by the library of congress is probably because the military took it off their approved insurance program for military dependents when the US Defense Subcommittee did some thorough testing on the method and found it to be potentially dangerous. Orthomolecular treatment is essentially just mega doses of vitamins, with the theory being that these doses will correct imbalances in the subject, and fix any number of psychiatric, or physical ailments. The problem with that is vitamins, when taken in large enough doses, stop being vitamins and start becoming drugs that can be very harmful. For example, one of the vitamins used is B6, and the daily dose recommended is over 600 mg per day, which is well above what is known to cause nerve damage.

Another reason it isn't taken seriously is because the proponents refuse to do testing with a scientific methodology. To be taken seriously an idea has to be passed through a very organized, well documented, controlled series of tests. These tests have to be done over and over inside a particular lab. Then the data and methodology needs to be reviewed outside of that. Then the findings need to be replicated outside of that lab using the same methodology. Once all of these things are done, and verified, the theory is given scientific weight. Even then it depends on if we're talking cellular tests v animal tests v human tests. You have to be very careful when looking at something that says "testing shows" because yeah, sure, one test one time could have shown an effect and then it was never reproduced. Or the methodology was sloppy, or not released, or there was a small sample, it wasn't double blind, etc etc. This is the exact issue with orthomolecular treatments (and also the Gerson treatment from the little I just read), there are no controlled, methodolgically sound, testing. And in the case of orthomolecular it's been proven dangerous just on the scientific basis of the effects of vitamins in those doses.

In my opinion, this therapy is way more practical and safe than any type of chemo. I know there are risks, but they are nothing when compared to chemo. What do these negative responses even relate to? Chemotherapy kills you, anything else would be better. I know the Gerson Therapy is expensive, mainly b/c the US won't allow any type of holistic approach to cure cancer. So people are traveling out of the US to be treated. They are not only surviving, they are thriving. People who have been through chemo are alive, but they have serious irreversible side effects.

Another point, when was the last time we heard on TV that someone OD'd on vitamins? Now ask yourself the same about prescription pills. I'm not against modern medicine. I just think people need to know there are other options when it comes to curing diseases, not specifically cancer. I'm not here to sway opinions, I am really here to make my point of view clear. It seems extremely obvious to me that preparing your body for the toxic environment we live in, and curing it with nature makes more sense than pumping ourselves full of chemicals to try to fix an ailment.

Everything is about convenience now. I say my head hurts, the doctor says take an anti-inflammatory medication. But why does my head hurt? That’s a hard question to ask. It’s easier for doctors to prescribe chemicals because they haven’t explored other options. It started out as laziness and morphed into ignorance. Americans in particular are obsessed with convenience and it’s killing us. That is the initial point I was initally trying to make. It has really spiraled out of control, haha. All the way to the benefits of coffee enemas.

[DWarrior]

Science doesn't have answers to everything.

Holistic.

[Cretaceous Bob]

You keep talking about nature, but nature made cancer in the first place. Cancer is a naturally occurring thing. Nature is the progenitor of rapacious treatment.

Nature will make your organs rupture for no fucking reason at all. Humans will at least wait to do it until you're sitting on some land they want or something.

Nature will fuck you as much as it will help you, and cancer is the "fucking you" kind of nature. It seems like you shouldn't trust it at that point.