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View Poll Results: Will 'Occupy Wall Street' affect real change?
Yes 31 22.63%
No 106 77.37%
Voters: 137. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-07-2011, 11:06 AM   #61 (permalink)
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the media defintely has a ahand in that, but still why (again) "inside job"is so intelligent, well researched and clear? its on similar points (if not exactly the same), it has very little idealistic tones and it worked very well at raising indignation in me. better than most of the discussions i heard about the occupy wall street movement. and it won an oscar which is a completely media dominated award.

if that went through, why cant this protest have similar spokespeople and instead it mostly focuses on vague statements or pseudo ironic ones? i think there should be more direct talk in it.
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:09 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Leentron has a good point. If you're watching mainstream media, the protests are nothing but students and hippies. Really there are some very intelligent, well rounded "average" Americans.
The dumb part is that they are just protesting the fact that wealth is not fairly distributed. But as Herman Caine will tell you, if you aren't rich, it's because you haven't made yourself rich. Don't blame people with money for having money.
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:27 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Leentron has a good point. If you're watching mainstream media, the protests are nothing but students and hippies. Really there are some very intelligent, well rounded "average" Americans.
The dumb part is that they are just protesting the fact that wealth is not fairly distributed. But as Herman Caine will tell you, if you aren't rich, it's because you haven't made yourself rich. Don't blame people with money for having money.
I would disagree with the Caine quote. It's become increasingly hard for Americans to progress forward out of the class they're in. I'm on my cell phone now so I can't provide a well rounded debate with links, but there are many factors limiting people. It's why the wealth gap has expanded as much as it has. You can work as hard as possible but if the system around you isn't working properly, then it won't work. Things like tuition increasing at the rate it has while middle class income has remained stagnant, etc. and if there aren't enough jobs available, that isn't you not making yourself rich, that's no jobs available. Definitely not ones that can pay off your loans. If middle class income rose at the rate it should have, the average would be making $78k I believe. Instead we are at $30k-$40k I believe. On my cell phone or I'd provide my back-up.


We didn't hit an economic collapse because the nation became that lazy. We need to stop blaming the every day citizen because most would work if they could. I have friends with college educations that would love to use their degrees if there were jobs available for them but they are stuck working minimum wage. I also have friends that would love to college if it was feasible, and it isn't. People are upset because they are doing what they are "supposed" to do, or trying to, and can't. It's unfortunate that we are being told it's our fault we don't have jobs or security, but it isn't.
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:40 AM   #64 (permalink)
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the media defintely has a ahand in that, but still why (again) "inside job"is so intelligent, well researched and clear? its on similar points (if not exactly the same), it has very little idealistic tones and it worked very well at raising indignation in me. better than most of the discussions i heard about the occupy wall street movement. and it won an oscar which is a completely media dominated award.

if that went through, why cant this protest have similar spokespeople and instead it mostly focuses on vague statements or pseudo ironic ones? i think there should be more direct talk in it.
Agreed, great movie. It's actually at my place right now via netflix to watch again.
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Old 10-07-2011, 12:06 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Leentron has a good point. If you're watching mainstream media, the protests are nothing but students and hippies. Really there are some very intelligent, well rounded "average" Americans.
The dumb part is that they are just protesting the fact that wealth is not fairly distributed. But as Herman Caine will tell you, if you aren't rich, it's because you haven't made yourself rich. Don't blame people with money for having money.
Why? The presumption that resources are distributed fairly is worthy of criticism, is it not?

There are certainly plenty of flaws in the critics, too, but wealth does tend to self-perpetuate.
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Old 10-07-2011, 12:19 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Why? The presumption that resources are distributed fairly is worthy of criticism, is it not?

There are certainly plenty of flaws in the critics, too, but wealth does tend to self-perpetuate.
Resources distributed fairly? What resources are to be gained from Wall Street? Stock ands bonds? We're all entitled to those, if we have the money to buy them.
Wealth is very much self-perpetuating, but that's just the way it works. How can that be changed?
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:38 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Resources distributed fairly? What resources are to be gained from Wall Street? Stock ands bonds? We're all entitled to those, if we have the money to buy them.
Isn't Wall Street where the bankers are? The banks that caused a lot of this mess owe way more than they are being held accountable for.

Here's an interesting read:
Attorneys General Settlement: The Next Big Bank Bailout? | Matt Taibbi | Rolling Stone

"As far as private investors go, we’ve already had one lawsuit directed at Bank of America, over losses linked to purchases of bad MBS (mostly from Countrywide mortgages), which resulted in an $8.5 billion settlement.

That one settlement, covering 22 mostly private plaintiffs, cost one bank, Bank of America, nearly half the size of the entire proposed AG settlement. This is from the Times story about that deal, in June:

'In a research note, Paul Miller of FBR Capital Markets projected that Bank of America could face a total of $25 billion of losses from the soured mortgages, the most of any of the major banks.'

So a private analyst this summer was estimating that just one bank, Bank of America, could face more in damages than the Obama administration and the AGs are now trying to “wrest” from all the major banks, combined, for all their liabilities.
...................

Why do those figures matter? Because the way these securitizations were structured, legally, Bank of America is obligated to buy back any loans that were sold fraudulently at face value – that is part of the legal language in the “pooling and servicing agreements” under which all of these mortgages were pooled.

So minus a settlement, Bank of America – one bank -- had a potential liability of $424 billion just from its Countrywide holdings! And it got off for $8.5 billion, a major victory."


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Wealth is very much self-perpetuating, but that's just the way it works. How can that be changed?
One way to fix this is to re-visit tax code and make necessary adjustments that currently allow the uber wealthy and corporations to abuse the system. Among other things.
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:30 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by FletchLives View Post
Resources distributed fairly? What resources are to be gained from Wall Street? Stock ands bonds? We're all entitled to those, if we have the money to buy them.
Wealth is very much self-perpetuating, but that's just the way it works. How can that be changed?
Self-perpetuation can be changed when society exacts certain taxation policies designed to limit these processes. Reinvesting these revenues for the less fortunate can help limit the cartelization of wealth. Most societies employ policies to limit disparities like this, to varying degrees, for a variety of social and ethical reasons.

Many people believe that the cartelization of wealth in a given society is wrong, often because it's difficult to become a part of that cartel, breeding resentment at inherent and innate inequality.
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:32 PM   #69 (permalink)
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that's what I'm saying man! Protest the fucking banks! Protest Fed Rez! Protesting the fact that the rich are rich is getting us no where.
These people aren't protesting the tax codes that make it possible for large corporations to pay nothing to the government. They're protesting Wall Street.
It's like if you think dog racing is animal abuse and you want to stop it, so you protest outside the homes of people who won money betting on dog races.
Oh wait, I'm giving these OWS protestors too much credit... It's more like if you can't win a bet at the dog races, so you protest outside the homes of people who won money betting on dog races.
Tax codes will not fix the fact that the wealthy stay wealthy and the poor stay poor... until they make themselves wealthy.

Dave, re-investing revenues means taking money from one person and giving it to someone else. How is that fair to the rich who worked hard to get the money they have?
So, in your perfect America it doesn't matter if you work every day, or sit on your ass all day, because the wealth is distributed.
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:00 PM   #70 (permalink)
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that's what I'm saying man! Protest the fucking banks! Protest Fed Rez! Protesting the fact that the rich are rich is getting us no where.

They are talking about all of these things. Tax loopholes, corporate subsides and entitlements, jobs being sent overseas, the banks continuing business as usual a mere two years after nearly destroying the world's economy through fraud, etc.
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