1486: God's Plan

[Kultcher]

Originally Posted by ssgtballard

I understand, I was mistaken on what the actual issue was. The generation after mine must have just come out dumber, easier to con than mine.

Times change. I'm not sure what generation you're from, but in my father's generation (he's 70-something), he was able to work and support a family on $20,000 a year, single income. Our generation can't do that. In my dad's generation, college was the exception rather than the rule. How many kids these days go to college "because it's what you're supposed to do?"

If you don't believe in the idea of it why participate.

Because most 17 year olds don't know any better? Maybe you were a smart kid who was ahead of the curve and figured out the game, but most kids aren't. That's the thing about being a kid.

[Blitzgal]

Originally Posted by ssgtballard

I work with around 400 people in my section, half of us have degree's. None of the secretary's do.

And were they hired because they had "equivalent work experience?" Most want ads are worded in that way. This doesn't help new graduates or people who just got through high school.

Look, these people aren't saying they should go to college for free. They're saying it's ridiculous that it costs six figures to get a basic college degree that the vast majority of employers require them to have to get a basic job. Your personal experience in not needing a degree does not mean it's true for the majority.

My four year degree cost me a little over $16K because I busted my ass to stay in the top percentile of my class in order to get scholarships. I know I'm extremely lucky and it's just dickish to look down at people who had to pay full tuition and say they deserve to be buried. If I were ten years younger, I wouldn't have been able to afford to go to college, and that's seriously fucked up.

[amish J]

Originally Posted by Kultcher

We got conned into buying an a magical ticket to future money making in the form of a degree, but by the time we graduated, the magic was all gone.

I know that's not always the story. Many degree holders are gainfully employed. But a whole fuckton of them aren't.

Stupid is multi-generation, but some of us saw the mistake and decided to deviate from it, instead of throwing in the towel because its hard to change

[Kultcher]

Originally Posted by amish J

Stupid is multi-generation, but some of us saw the mistake and decided to deviate from it, instead of throwing in the towel because its hard to change

Did you, though? You already said you had some debt, so clearly you didn't see it until it was too late.

[picard102]

Hilarious

[amish J]

Originally Posted by Kultcher

Did you, though? You already said you had some debt, so clearly you didn't see it until it was too late.

right but i dont blame anyone but myself, you seem to be blaming the loan companies for giving you the money and then you want to turn around and complain that you cant work anywhere but mcdonalds. How is that on them. You took that job so go cry in the fries and shut up already.

[Kultcher]

I was honestly only giving myself as an example. I don't actually work at McDonald's. Until a couple months ago, I made my living as a freelance writer, using exactly none of the skills that I learned in college.

Like I said before, if it was just you or just me, that'd be one thing. But it's happening to so many people, and there's gotta be something to that more than just "everyone is stupider than they were 30 years ago."

[amish J]

Originally Posted by Kultcher

I was honestly only giving myself as an example. I don't actually work at McDonald's. Until a couple months ago, I made my living as a freelance writer, using exactly none of the skills that I learned in college.

Like I said before, if it was just you or just me, that'd be one thing. But it's happening to so many people, and there's gotta be something to that more than just "everyone is stupider than they were 30 years ago."

The lemming effect is what it is, everyone save for a select few that went to college has had debt from it. It did not just become a problem. If you want the degree you get the debt. it is as simple as that. are you guaranteed a great career because of it, no. We gambled and lost. but freddie wasn't playing me. I chose that. So i dont put it on anyone elses shoulders.

[Kultcher]

Originally Posted by amish J

The lemming effect is what it is, everyone save for a select few that went to college has had debt from it. It did not just become a problem. If you want the degree you get the debt. it is as simple as that. are you guaranteed a great career because of it, no. We gambled and lost. but freddie wasn't playing me. I chose that. So i dont put it on anyone elses shoulders.

I think we're just arguing in circles now, but I'll try this again.

There are two core problems with the current system.

1) The mantra in America has been and still is "You must go to to college to be successful." You can blame the kids as much as you want for buying the hype, but that's like blaming a kid for being racist when his parents raised him to hate other races. A lot of kids "don't have a chance." I took a Comp. Sci. course in my first year of college, and I met so many people who didn't have the first clue about computer programming. They clearly had no interest or passion in it - it was just "what they were supposed to do to make money."

2) A college degree is worth far less than it was 20 years ago. Meanwhile, tuition is much higher, and although I haven't researched this, I assume interest rates are higher as well. Add to that the fact that the job market is flooded with degree-wielding workers, meaning there aren't enough good jobs out there for people with degrees. And add to that the fact that wages have not kept up with general inflation, let alone the inflation of education costs.

So you have kids coming out of college today who have no choice but to take shitty jobs while being saddled with substantially more debt than their parents would have had in the same situation.

I don't know whose fault this is. Maybe it was just the American mentality of "Well, this will be a problem, but we'll fix it when we get there." Or maybe the investment companies had a hand in it, saw that the market for student loans was ripe for gouging. I don't know who caused it, but it is definitely a problem and it's going to come to a head if this cycle continues for another generation or two.

One last thing about personal responsibility... When a conman runs a con, he's usually preying on the greed or naivete of his target. Now, you can blame the target for being greedy or naive, but that doesn't mean that the conman gets to walk. Just because the con worked doesn't mean that the victim deserved it.

[amish J]

if we cant learn we are conning ourselves. Screw the degree, stop catering to the majority. If you keep stubbing your foot on the coffee table do you let others do they same or do you move the coffee table. I can agree the argument is coming full around though so lets just call it what it is, fucked up any which way you look at it.