1619: Danger! Danger! Part 2

[John Walker]

Originally Posted by Blitzgal

Godwin's law.

It think it's appropriate since 1) The Nazis disarmed the Jews before beginning the genocide and 2) The Jewish resistance groups were desperate for weapons.


Keep in mind that the ATF claims only 1.6% of all weapons traced to a crime are the "assault weapons." The majority are handguns. If all the legally owned handguns in the US just evaporated the second a ban went into effect, you would still have to deal with illegally imported and manufactured handguns. How effective was the war on drugs at eliminating drugs? It's illegal to buy cocaine, but that doesn't stop anyone. Anyone who really wanted to hurt someone would still be able to put time, money and effort into getting a firearm. Guns can be smuggled into the US, stolen from armories and sold, and just slapped together, and it would be very profitable. A submachine gun, the Sten gun, was designed from the ground up to be made from pipe and sheet metal in a small workshop. The only part of the gun that can't be made that easily is the rifling in the barrel, but most shootings are at point blank range anyways... who wants to see Remington, Winchester, etc go out of business and be replaced by gun cartels? That's not the sunshine and lollipops solution that the Brady Campaign would have you believe in...

[starscream]

Originally Posted by mrthewhite

If guns prevent the government from taking away your rights, why have you lost some of your rights over the past 10 years? Why hasn't your gun ownership preventing that?

Because no one thinks that's why we have the 2nd Amendment. They think their right to hunt or shoot an intruder are what needs protecting. We can't legislate everyone not be stupid.

Through the whole movie Gasland, all I could think of was, "Why don't these people (who obviously all have guns in their houses) go to the Halliburton sites and stop this from happening?" It doesn't matter if you believe fracking did or did not cause their children to die, they believed it. And if they didn't use their guns then, I don't know what they're saving them for. It sounds insane and wouldn't have worked in an immediate sense, but we'd have known about the whole thing a lot earlier.

[mrthewhite]

Originally Posted by starscream

Because no one thinks that's why we have the 2nd Amendment. They think their right to hunt or shoot an intruder are what needs protecting. We can't legislate everyone not be stupid.

Through the whole movie Gasland, all I could think of was, "Why don't these people (who obviously all have guns in their houses) go to the Halliburton sites and stop this from happening?" It doesn't matter if you believe fracking did or did not cause their children to die, they believed it. And if they didn't use their guns then, I don't know what they're saving them for. It sounds insane and wouldn't have worked in an immediate sense, but we'd have known about the whole thing a lot earlier.

That doesn't explain why every other country in the world isn't a dictatorship. There are a number of democratic countries out there that have very strict gun laws (Canada, UK, Australia along with many other European countries) and their citizens seem to do just fine with freedom. Certainly no worse than the US does anyway.

The fact is guns don't equal freedom and the second amendment doesn't equal safety.

[John Walker]

Originally Posted by FrozenViking

I wouldn't want to know that my neighbour had a cabinet full of pistols and semi automatics no matter what his reasons were. What would I do in order not to feel threatened by that - buy guns for myself just in case?

"Guns doesn't kill, people do" is something I hear a lot. But if people didn't have guns, it would be more difficult to kill.

Why does the "arsenal" thing scare people so much? How many hands does someone have? Two! Max! He can't shoot all 10 guns at you at the same time.

Would you prefer if mass shooters were replaced by bombers? It's not rocket science, a kid could make a bomb and they do. They post videos of the explosions on youtube for christ's sake. Look, even if you could magic away all the scary guns, you are still left with every other substitute way of killing someone, any of which could be used in the same circumstance you would claim only a gun could be used. The danger is giving up your right to legally own a gun because you think the crimes that will be committed with guns would otherwise be impossible.
DC snipers --> DC bombers.
Norway bombing/shooting --> Norway bombing/more bombing.
Angry husband shoots wife --> Angry husband stabs wife.
By the way, stabbings are every bit as lethal as shootings. Victims tend to have more stab wounds, usually in the torso (hard to miss at arm's length away). A bombing is over in an instant, giving no one a chance to escape. Would you have preferred if the Virginia Tech shooter instead drove a truck bomb into the crowd standing outside the graduation ceremony?

[John Walker]

Originally Posted by mrthewhite

That doesn't explain why every other country in the world isn't a dictatorship.

There are enough dictatorships, now and in the past, to convince a reasonable person that even though "every other country in the world isn't a dictatorship," a dictatorship is ALWAYS preceded by a ban on weapons. A mediocre decrease in crime (if any, other countries saw an increase in use of other weapons after new gun laws) isn't worth the potential for a dictatorship.

[mrthewhite]

Originally Posted by John Walker

There are enough dictatorships, now and in the past, to convince a reasonable person that even though "every other country in the world isn't a dictatorship," a dictatorship is ALWAYS preceded by a ban on weapons. A mediocre decrease in crime (if any, other countries saw an increase in use of other weapons after new gun laws) isn't worth the potential for a dictatorship.

a dictatorship also starts with the birth of a dictator. maybe we should outlaw births just to be super safe...

[John Walker]

Originally Posted by Keith

John Walker Lindh?

Hell yes I Shawshanked out of there because they wouldn't let me listen to the show! No, it's just a coincidence.

[John Walker]

Originally Posted by mrthewhite

a dictatorship also starts with the birth of a dictator. maybe we should outlaw births just to be super safe...

Call me crazy but we should just make crime illegal PERIOD

[pmbailey]

Originally Posted by mrthewhite

The fact is guns don't equal freedom and the second amendment doesn't equal safety.

So why are there so many insistent on taking away the 2nd amendment if it doesn't mean anything anyway? Should just be no big deal right?

[pmbailey]

The fact is guns take lives and save lives. It's just a matter of who's hands they're in. I didn't just walk into a store and ask for a concealed weapons permit and get it. I had to go through a long process (several months) which included FBI background check, fingerprints, etc.

I guarantee someone who is out to rob or possibly take another person's life for their own benefit didn't go through the same channels I did.

I believe in background checks, I believe that legal guns should only be issued to people who prove that they can handle the responsibility that comes with gun ownership. But the flip side of that coin is that the people who use guns for the wrong reasons don't go through the legal process. So if you make them illegal, you've only removed them from the hands of the responsible people, not the bad people.