1939: 12 Words or Less

[Keith]

Originally Posted by oie

And Keith (as well as most people who cite the Bible to back up their anti-gay marriage stance) is actually pretty inaccurate about what the Bible says about gay people and gay sex. When you take those "anti-gay" passages in context, it's obvious that Christians should NOT be against homosexuality at all.

It's sooo obvious!

[thirteen]

Originally Posted by Lanfear

gaaaaaaaahhhhh did Jesse just seriously say that a reasonable middle ground would be "believing in a higher power/force starting the universe up"
How the fuck is that a middle ground? That is pretty much the definition of religion.

The only middle ground you can have is a live and let live approach: I don't tell you that I think you believing in god is silly, you don't try to convince me to join your club.

I didn't agree with him about that, but I'm with Jesse Joyce about extreme atheists and any kind of clubs for these organizations. Sorry, Michael.

Jesse is awesome.

And saying "leave the country if you don't like it" is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. You're just applying it to things you agree with that are already systematically in place. Things don't work that way. Maybe you should leave if most of the country idiotically doesn't agree with gay marriage instead of trying to educate them or changing laws. Right?

[thirteen]

Also, it's a little strange for Chemda to use "they chose to be waiters" as an argument and for Keith to say "don't take it out on me, the customer" against Jesse and then also believe that everyone should tip waiters money no matter how poor they are or how differently the practice could be in different countries. What if customers say it's not their responsibility to give the waiters extra money just like it's not their problem if the waiter has health care or not? The businesses should be giving their employees fair wage and try to give them health care, and then it's the responsibility of the worker to get it if the business can't. Not the customers, in a perfect world.

(I still tip, even here, where tipping isn't such a big deal. Just wondering about the line of reasoning used in the show)

[Lanfear]

Originally Posted by thirteen

I didn't agree with him about that, but I'm with Jesse Joyce about extreme atheists and any kind of clubs for these organizations. Sorry, Michael.

Jesse is awesome.

And saying "leave the country if you don't like it" is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. You're just applying it to things you agree with that are already systematically in place. Things don't work that way. Maybe you should leave if most of the country idiotically doesn't agree with gay marriage instead of trying to educate them or changing laws. Right?

I think it is pretty likely that they have the extreme atheism groups in the US simply because you have such extreme religious groups. It's much more chill in most parts of Europe.

And I think you understand that there was mostly of kidding involved in my "leave the country" comment but in all honesty if you want to fight to change the laws due to your religious beliefs (which NEVER should have anything to do with the state) I do ask you to leave. Fighting for Human rights is a very different story.

There was a case a few years back of a family that asked for asylum in Tenessee because they were not allowed to practice homeschooling in Germany and they are welcome to have them.

[scottperezfox]

I absolutely disagree with Jesse that men in the military are equally likely to be rapists than the general public. They are SO much more. These are young men, bursting with testosterone, trained in violence, cultured to hate women, and often suffering from aggressive behaviour. Combat veterans may have a host of other mental problems that add to the problem. The result, sadly, is that rape in the military is ridiculously high compared the civilian world.

I do agree that the military system of justice, including the very basic reporting mechanisms within the chain of command, makes the situation worse by hiding the issue from public scrutiny. It's absolutely terrible.

But the fact remains, the sort of people who join the military are also the sort of people more likely to act violently toward women, including rape. Keith often points out that Mixed Martial Arts fighters tend to get into a lot of scrapes in bars and are generally short-tempered. Big surprise. They're not well people and don't have boundaries. Unfortunately, many in our military share these traits. (A small number in the grand scheme, of course, but higher than civilian world. Same goes for frat boys and Wall st. bankers.)

[Keith]

Originally Posted by thirteen

And saying "leave the country if you don't like it" is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. You're just applying it to things you agree with that are already systematically in place. Things don't work that way. Maybe you should leave if most of the country idiotically doesn't agree with gay marriage instead of trying to educate them or changing laws. Right?

"Right?"

I'd leave the country if I lived next door to you and your condescending "right?"

You can say that you wouldn't leave your country cause you live in Canada, a nice country.

Look at the pictures of the Ukraine again. Look up some videos of what's going on in Russia.

It's a little different than Canada.

Right?

Thank God my great grandparents left the worse countries.

For the record, the majority of the America doesn't feel gay marriage is wrong, otherwise there wouldn't be such a huge backlash against a celebrity that voices said sentiment, and people would feel more comfortable sharing that sentiment instead of coving it up by simply saying they are religious.

Right?

Originally Posted by thirteen

Also, it's a little strange for Chemda to use "they chose to be waiters" as an argument and for Keith to say "don't take it out on me, the customer" against Jesse and then also believe that everyone should tip waiters money no matter how poor they are...

If you're too poor to tip then you're too poor to be served like a king.

Right?

You're being goofy today.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by oie

Wow... that's all you got from my post? Okay, well let me be more clear. It's obvious to those who would actually look into it and study it rather than take one verse and condemn an entire group of people.

It's the difference between people who believe the world was created in 7 days vs. the people who understand metaphor.

It's so obvious to you, just somehow not obvious to most other laymen as well as clergymen, priests, and The Pope.

[Tank]

The people waiting for Jesus probably feel like I did as a kid waiting for my dad to come home from the bar. Just go to bed...

[Lanfear]

Originally Posted by Lord of the Cock Rings

I think he was talking about deism which is really more of a philosophy about the creation of the universe.

It boils down to: there is an almighty being (or force) that created the universe and then left it alone to develop on its own.

Like the big bang was a primary school science fair project and God has long since gone to college while the universe sits in a terrarium in his childhood bedroom.

NOPE: "there is a god and you need to believe that he created everything but then stopped bothering" is not a middle ground

[Lanfear]

So in the super simplified no mythological god vs existing mythological god you only accept the 'there is a god but if it makes you feel better I'll call him creator' option?
It is a pretty binary decision so my whole point is there is no fucking middle ground only everybody believing what they like.