2013: Withdrawn

[g001dfinger]

During Keith's SS rant during Sparrow's letter, replace "Atheism" for "SS" and that rant takes on the reason why you can't limit ideas. You can make actions and threats illegal, but not preference. That's the FCC. Luckily the FCC only has limited authority. Keith doesn't understand why V for Vendetta was causing trouble.

[Scumhook]

Originally Posted by g001dfinger

During Keith's SS rant during Sparrow's letter, replace "Atheism" for "SS" and that rant takes on the reason why you can't limit ideas. You can make actions and threats illegal, but not preference. That's the FCC. Luckily the FCC only has limited authority. Keith doesn't understand why V for Vendetta was causing trouble.

very nicely put

however you may as well try to explain string theory to a downsie

[Keith]

Naziism is just an idea. Like any other idea we shouldn't limit. I see.

[scotticus]

Originally Posted by Keith

Naziism is just an idea. Like any other idea we shouldn't limit. I see.

The jury's still out... Hitler could end up looking like a genius.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Keith

Naziism is just an idea. Like any other idea we shouldn't limit. I see.

if you want to limit their influence, there are better ways than curtailing everyone's first amendment rights to be as retarded as they wanna be. this is America.

[DaveNJ]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

if you want to limit their influence, there are better ways than curtailing everyone's first amendment rights to be as retarded as they wanna be. this is America.

That's a cop out. "There are better ways" ultimately ends up being the long, convoluted route, and along the way, people still get hurt. Hate speech isn't just an abstract thing. It affects people on a physical level. When you suggest taking the roundabout way to a world in which the outcome is the same (it's not okay to use hate speech), you're suggesting a sacrifice. People will get hurt, and some of them will die (mostly suicides, but another physical effect is high blood pressure, so some strokes in there, too).

I just don't see how that sacrifice is worth it. Dealing with hate speech is tough, but as Keith has mentioned, other countries manage it. Germany does it with Nazism, and it has reaped substantial benefits.

Are there secret Nazis in Germany still? Sure. Are there secret Nazis here? Yes. Heck, Keith almost got a secret Nazi tattoo accidentally. Freedom of speech didn't fix that.

Your approach sacrifices the safety and security of a lot of minorities in service of a potentially unobtainable ideal. Even if you do achieve the goal of eradicating prejudice in the marketplace of ideas through social norms, that won't eliminate it inside of folks. Anyway, laws are just a different type of social norm anyway. A stronger tool for a tougher challenge.

[da_ticklah]

I kind of like it when people wear confederate flags (similar enough to a swastika) I see it as asshole self identification. I can look at their retarded clothes and realize what's the point trying to talk to this asshole, I can just go on about my day.

[Larion]

Originally Posted by da_ticklah

I kind of like it when people wear confederate flags (similar enough to a swastika) I see it as asshole self identification. I can look at their retarded clothes and realize what's the point trying to talk to this asshole, I can just go on about my day.

I've worn a confederate flag to be an asshole. Had a belt buckle with a confederate flag on it and boy did it piss rednecks off. Mission accomplished. Don't know what ever happened to that belt buckle but I miss it...

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by DaveNJ

That's a cop out. "There are better ways" ultimately ends up being the long, convoluted route, and along the way, people still get hurt. Hate speech isn't just an abstract thing.

I just don't see how that sacrifice is worth it. Dealing with hate speech is tough, but as Keith has mentioned, other countries manage it. Germany does it with Nazism, and it has reaped substantial benefits.


Your approach sacrifices the safety and security of a lot of minorities in service of a potentially unobtainable ideal. Even if you do achieve the goal of eradicating prejudice in the marketplace of ideas through social norms, that won't eliminate it inside of folks. Anyway, laws are just a different type of social norm anyway. A stronger tool for a tougher challenge.

i don't see how weakening our constitutional rights are better or easier. it's a document that is meant to be hard to change. the bill of rights aren't suggestions, they're the leg we have to stand on. America doesn't do great at tempering itself. we're a 'run through the floodgates and use well meaning legislation to bullshit folks' kind of place.

what are you sacrificing seeing a nazi tattoo? is that bigger than your right to say and express unpopular things? do you want our current administration to tell you what's kosher?

stronger tools? you mean better ways? i'd like ones that don't involve curtailing our hard won ability to dissent.

[Keith]

That's where we differ. I don't want better things.