2028: Ostensibly Yours

[Captain]

Social media/people are coming to Palestine's defense because Israel's response is not proportional to Hamas' offense.

School yard example: We all agree bullying is wrong. It would be wrong for Hamas' to bully Israel (suicide bombers & rockets). Israel has a right to defend itself as would any kid on the playground. Israel's response to the bullying is like the Columbine shooters.

This is why people are picking Palestine's side. Palestine is the kid that eats lunch with Hamas'.

[DaveNJ]

Originally Posted by Captain

Social media/people are coming to Palestine's defense because Israel's response is not proportional to Hamas' offense.

School yard example: We all agree bullying is wrong. It would be wrong for Hamas' to bully Israel (suicide bombers & rockets). Israel has a right to defend itself as would any kid on the playground. Israel's response to the bullying is like the Columbine shooters.

This is why people are picking Palestine's side. Palestine is the kid that eats lunch with Hamas'.

Proportionality with respect to just war theory is a response designed to end the wrong, not pure tit for tat. A perfectly proportional response to the actions of Hamas would be monstrous, and nobody would think Israel firing 3,000 unguided missiles at Gaza would be okay, so cut that nonsense.

Israel is held to a markedly different standard for self defense than any country in the region or in the world in general. This conflict wasn't even the most violent one in the region this month, so you're going to have to think of a better reason for why Israel is getting such flak.

[Keith]

Captain's right in that that's the reason Israel is getting the flak.

It's ridiculous and given the same amount of thought as Jay-Z's marriage, but I agree that is the reason.

[Captain]

Originally Posted by DaveNJ

This conflict wasn't even the most violent one in the region this month, so you're going to have to think of a better reason for why Israel is getting such flak.

I just told you why people are tuning in now. They see how many civilians, specifically children, are dying because of Israel's response and they are asking if that is reasonable. Why do you think people are tuning in now?

Even Spider-Man knew that with great power comes great responsibility.

[DaveNJ]

Originally Posted by Captain

I just told you why people are tuning in now. They see how many civilians, specifically children, are dying because of Israel's response and they are asking if that is reasonable. Why do you think people are tuning in now?

Even Spider-Man knew that with great power comes great responsibility.

I think people are tuning in because it gets coverage. There's no coverage of the other regional conflicts, so even if folks wanted to follow them closely, they couldn't. Israel's response is secondary at best.

The Israeli Palestinian conflict is an echo chamber that amplifies mundane violence with a bunch of narratives that people care about. Any and all conflict there gets prime placement for coverage. That's why people follow it.

Conversely, it's also why people here won't care in a month.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Dean from Australia

When have the IDF taken steps to avoid civilian casualties?

Are we even watching the same war?

This is silly. You're going to try to compare Hamas with Israel's main military? You understand that's what the IDF is, right?

When our guest Noah said his brother just got out of being a member of the Israeli military, we all, even you, thought nothing much of it. You think we'd have the same reaction, even you, if he said his brother just got out of being a member of Hamas?

[Dean from Australia]

Originally Posted by Keith

This is silly. You're going to try to compare Hamas with Israel's main military? You understand that's what the IDF is, right?

When our guest Noah said his brother just got out of being a member of the Israeli military, we all, even you, thought nothing much of it. You think we'd have the same reaction, even you, if he said his brother just got out of being a member of Hamas?

Yeah, I am. The Israeli Defence Forces could have entered Gaza and performed a surgical take down of Hamas' tunnel and rocket systems without laying waste to entire swathes of Palestinian residential and commercial districts. Instead, they have unleashed hell on the civilian population without regard for who or what they are targeting. It doesn't matter if it's a hospital or a school or a home - they have a clear objective to wipe out everything.

So Noah's brother was in the IDF...right?

And?

[DaveNJ]

Originally Posted by Dean from Australia

Yeah, I am. The Israeli Defence Forces could have entered Gaza and performed a surgical take down of Hamas' tunnel and rocket systems without laying waste to entire swathes of Palestinian residential and commercial districts. Instead, they have unleashed hell on the civilian population without regard for who or what they are targeting. It doesn't matter if it's a hospital or a school or a home - they have a clear objective to wipe out everything.

So Noah's brother was in the IDF...right?

And?

If the IDF was targeting hospitals, why is Shifa hospital still standing? It's not for lack of the tools to do so.

If you have the resources to make Israel's strikes more surgical, I welcome it, but how is Israel supposed to deal with rockets being launched from civilian areas while dealing no damage to civilians? That's just impossible.

[bithead]

Originally Posted by Captain

Social media/people are coming to Palestine's defense because Israel's response is not proportional to Hamas' offense.

I admit this was my initial gut reaction too - that Israel's response is not proportional to Hamas' offense. But as I learned more about how Hamas has no regard for their own people, I realized that Israel cannot fight the "clean war" that the public thinks they want.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Dean from Australia

So Noah's brother was in the IDF...right?

And?

Exactly. And nothing. Who cares.

But I wonder if it'd be shocking if he was a member of Hamas...