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Professor Subterfuge 05-26-2015 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow (Post 843666)

i'd argue that the internet isn't necessarily a /better/ way to connect.

Ever sit through a church service? Did ya feel connected?! Lol :)

You made solid points. It's important to know where religion came from. It's function in the past. I'd argue it's even more important to acknowledge and accept where it's going.

Sparrow 05-26-2015 12:39 PM

many. i still go sometimes. the families that comprise the church where my letter still resides have been there for coming on 6 generations. we have genetic memories of each other. i don't think what they call the Spirit Moving is outwardly divine, though; i've felt the same electricity at particularly well psyched up concerts. it's real, the collective focused energy of a mass of beings all at once in the same mindset. we just disagree whence it came.

Mattman 05-27-2015 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanfear (Post 843646)

So DO you agree that atheism is moral anarchy as they are missing the right basis for morality or don't you?

No I don't, but do I think that many religious teachers will look at how "the west" views religion and use that as an excuse for defending their position in extremist ways. Just look at the Charlie Hebdo attack, or the Fatwa on Salman Rushdie, years ago - most people will think these acts are ridiculous and totally inappropriate reaction to satire or analysis of the Islamic faith, but the Islamic world firmly believes that there are some things that are unacceptable and crossing the line brings retribution.

The "all religion is dumb" line will not only annoy those who like going to church, or temple, or mosque and love the feeling of belonging, but it will also give ammunition to these extremists to rally a more aggressive line of evangelism. It also contributes to the view that atheists lack moral fiber and therefore are lesser people - there is a wide-felt belief that all non-Muslims are inferior simply because they are non-Muslims. I have lived in Muslim countries for more than 10 years, and even as a western expat I was a second-class citizen because of my "ignorant religious ways".

I chose to join the Catholic church and I enjoy it. I am opposed to some of the teachings and I prefer to be guided by my own moral compass. I would tell people whom I think would benefit from membership to the church of how I think they would see a difference in their lives, but I would never force my beliefs down anyone's throat, neither do I think religion and laws should be aligned. The spread of Sharia'a law as a replacement for international common law, for example is a real step back in time and in many ways goes against the progress of mankind to a fairer society.

Professor Subterfuge 05-27-2015 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattman (Post 843701)
The spread of Sharia'a law as a replacement for international common law, for example is a real step back in time and in many ways goes against the progress of mankind to a fairer society.

I'd argue Catholicism is to gays what Sharia law is to females. Maybe not as extreme, but they both creates lesser rights and second-class citizen status.

Mattman 05-27-2015 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor Subterfuge (Post 843707)
I'd argue Catholicism is to gays what Sharia law is to females. Maybe not as extreme, but they both creates lesser rights and second-class citizen status.

You are right in a way. But Catholics are trending to recognise that "love one another" is paramount, irrespective of gender preference, whereas Sharia'a is still stuck in Medeival thinking.

I would love to see my religion continue on its route to "love one another, unconditionally". It is my personal outlook and one I think resounds with non-believers alike. Sharia'a is the imposition of an ancient value system totally divorced from popular thinking.

To be relevent in 2015 Catholicism has to recognise that homosexual relationships are no less loving and moral as male/female. This Pope is the best chance we have to put this recognise this dynamic.

Lanfear 05-27-2015 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattman (Post 843701)

I chose to join the Catholic church and I enjoy it. I am opposed to some of the teachings and I prefer to be guided by my own moral compass. I would tell people whom I think would benefit from membership to the church of how I think they would see a difference in their lives, but I would never force my beliefs down anyone's throat, neither do I think religion and laws should be aligned. The spread of Sharia'a law as a replacement for international common law, for example is a real step back in time and in many ways goes against the progress of mankind to a fairer society.

From the "I chose" comment I'm gonna assume that you weren't baptized as a baby but rather as an adult looked around all kinds of religions and picked Catholicism.
I would honestly be interested in how you approached that choice. Did you compare teaching among religions or maybe at least among the different types of Christianity if you are dead-set on that already? Did you have friends in that church and you wanted the social aspect? Was the church building close by your house/there were no other religious groups available in your town?
I really have a hard time wrapping my mind around you specifically picking something that you know you disagree with some of the teachings.

For my background, I was baptised protestant and as my family isn't very religious so I just ignored it for a while but formally left the church in my mid twenties. It took me that long because protestantism (at least in the form we have here not the crazy baptist sects that you have in Amercia) is much more liberal and reasonable. If I was baptized catholic I would have left in my teens already.

Mattman 05-28-2015 02:58 AM

Born protestant, non-practicing family. Did a lot of self-reflection when I got divorced and became single-parent. I never thought I "needed" church, because I was so smart and knew everything (I thought)! In my mind the church was for people who needed a crutch to lean on. Being religious was sign of weakness, I thought.

Then I met someone for whom I had more respect as a person than anyone else I had ever met. She was a convert to Catholicism, but certainly not a weak person. I guess what I saw was what the church meant to her and how her view of the world and relationships was strengthened. It's really difficult to put into words, but it was something I could see and feel. For me, joining the church gave me a degree of humility, which I kinda needed. I did not become a bible basher, although I did study for my confirmation - being older and having experienced life, I could appreciate learning more than most born-to-it Catholics. I joined for me, but my close friend was surprised, and happy. We got married about a year later, in Church.

Oh, and I am English, living in South East Asia for the last 30-plus years, Lanfear.


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