2420: Talent Show

[Sparrow]

if they believe it's an investment to secure the presidency, we'll at least suffer it through the fall.

[Rosa]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

i, too, am uncomfortable with the narrative that b/c she's a woman she's beyond reproach; that her womb is proof enough to dismiss any criticism. i think it pulls us right back to the days people didn't think women could murder.

vaginas and boobs aren't character references.

I'm sorry, but nobody is suggesting she is beyond reproach because she's a woman. All anybody is saying is: please hold her to the same standard as her male counterparts. Karl rove deleted 22 million (!!!!) emails from the Bush White House, during a federal investigation. Colin Powell did essentially the same thing as Hillary with his emails when he held her position (Michael and I can debate this at some point soon). Neither of them were held accountable or hounded with investigation after investigation about it. Neither of them spent months, or even a week in the media's eye.

The main problem is that the bush email scandal far outweighed Hillary's, in terms of criminal level activity, yet it received nothing more than a single 24 hour news cycle. the state department has issues. They are not unique to Hillary. Politics has issues, they are not unique to Hillary. One problem, that we must not ignore, is that Hillary is held to a different standard than her male counterparts, whether she is running for office or not (this pattern dates back to the 80s, so don't try to tell me it's just because she's a presidential candidate). And here's the very real truth: a lot of it stems from sexism. It may not be entirely rooted in sexism, but sexism is an inherently entangled component that you CANNOT neglect. And this matters. I don't care how sick you are of hearing about it. If fucking matters.

And honestly, if you offer up the kind of statement sparrow makes above ("she's not beyond reproach just cuz she's a woman"), you validate the idea that many people believe the opposite of that, which I don't belive is true. And by pretending it's a reasonable version of the conversation to have, even just by taking a side, you validate it as a serious topic and shift the whole focus away from the real issue at heart. And this shift/redirect only serves to undermine (a) the very real ways in which sexism has contributed to the long term treatment and perception of Hillary over her 30+ years career, and most recently her campaign, and (b) the ways in which her being a woman will inherently advance women's rights/power/perception in this country and the world at large. I'm not saying you should vote for her just because she's a woman. I'm not saying she should get away with anything just because she's a woman. All I'm saying is that it is impossible for sexism to not play a role in how our culture characterizes and judges Hilary, and thus how YOU (all of you) respond to her. People these days, in general, seem to lack any kind of legitimate historical perspective. and that lack of perspective makes all interpretations of the current political circumstances thereof...basically meaningless.

lets also not spread the myth that electing a woman, even if it is Hilary with all her 'warts', won't inherently change how our society views the place of women and the potential they hold in a big and important and worthwhile way. This is, in part, just a product of how biological brains work. We need to see certain kinds of people hold power to really change what we BELIVE they are capable of. Like, to BELIVE it in our neurons. Please don't undermine the value of that.

Hilary's being a woman isnt the only reason to vote for her. Hillz's being a woman could be considered, to use Michael's definition of the sentiment, the 'cherry on top' of an otherwise pretty fucking qualified and competent candidate. It's not a great singular reason to vote for her (that's why we rejected Carly fiorina and sarah palin) but there's loads of good reasons PLUS she's a woman, AND that's a big deal. (I'm sorry her stance on free trade and interventionism in the Mideast suck; outside of those issues she is pretty solid, really).

If you want more evidence/sources/examples/historical perspective etc. bug me and I'll try to find some down time to provide.

TLDR. Can we please not undermine the significance of Hilary's gender by reducing the complexity of this issue to some bullshit two toned cartoon world?? Kthks, baiiii (it's 3AM in the uk, where I am right now, and I've had a lot of beer and ginger wine. I'm sorry if this was aggressive or riddled with errors/redundancies! Oh also... I'll be in newcastle this weekend... If any Katg fans are from new castle and want to have a drink I'll be around! I'm also in Oxford until Friday, same offer....)


(<3 you sparrow and Micahael. And Danny obvi.)

[dannyhatch]

Originally Posted by Rosa

<3 you... Danny

YESSSS

[My Sweaty Balls]

Originally Posted by Rosa

All anybody is saying is: please hold her to the same standard as her male counterparts. Karl rove deleted 22 million (!!!!) emails from the Bush White House, during a federal investigation. Colin Powell did essentially the same thing as Hillary with his emails when he held her position (Michael and I can debate this at some point soon).

Guess what, if Karl Rove or Colin Power was a presidential nominee, this would have absolutely been an issue. Hilary is being held to the exact same standard as a male counterpart.

I think there is absolutely a trend here to paint every attack on Hilary as sexism, but attacks on Bernie (previously) or Trump as just the cost of doing business. This means when there are actual sexist attacks on her they will be dismissed because the boy keeps crying wolf.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Rosa

(<3 you sparrow and Micahael. And Danny obvi.)

Originally Posted by dannyhatch

YESSSS

third place is, like, one step up from participation award, but your enthusiasm is inspiring and you should feel proud to have been mentioned. you keep doing you. #Crown

[My Sweaty Balls]

Originally Posted by dannyhatch

YESSSS

Danny, Danny, Danny don't edit Rosa's I love yous.

It said And Danny obvi. (she is such a romantic) - leave it at that and be thankful.

[dannyhatch]

Ever heard of my good friend Save the Best for Last?

[Sparrow]

Vanessa Williams was a winner.

[dannyhatch]

Originally Posted by My Sweaty Balls

Danny, Danny, Danny don't edit Rosa's I love yous.

It said And Danny obvi. (she is such a romantic) - leave it at that and be thankful.

You got me. Great work detective.

[MichaelApproved]

Originally Posted by Rosa

I'm sorry, but nobody is suggesting she is beyond reproach because she's a woman. All anybody is saying is: please hold her to the same standard as her male counterparts. Karl rove deleted 22 million (!!!!) emails from the Bush White House, during a federal investigation. Colin Powell did essentially the same thing as Hillary with his emails when he held her position (Michael and I can debate this at some point soon). Neither of them were held accountable or hounded with investigation after investigation about it. Neither of them spent months, or even a week in the media's eye.

John Kerry was swift-boated during the 2004 election because he was a woman?

In 2000 Republican primaries, Bush campaign robocalled people and alleged that McCain fathered an illegitimate black child because he was a woman?

Going after political opponents is nothing new. Hillary is no stranger to dirty politics. I'm not sympathetic to her being a victim because she has her own vicious political history.

Originally Posted by Rosa

The main problem is that the bush email scandal far outweighed Hillary's, in terms of criminal level activity, yet it received nothing more than a single 24 hour news cycle. the state department has issues. They are not unique to Hillary. Politics has issues, they are not unique to Hillary. One problem, that we must not ignore, is that Hillary is held to a different standard than her male counterparts, whether she is running for office or not (this pattern dates back to the 80s, so don't try to tell me it's just because she's a presidential candidate). And here's the very real truth: a lot of it stems from sexism. It may not be entirely rooted in sexism, but sexism is an inherently entangled component that you CANNOT neglect. And this matters. I don't care how sick you are of hearing about it. If fucking matters.

And the Democrats should've held hearing and pushed for charges against them. Be mad at them, I am.

Originally Posted by Rosa

And honestly, if you offer up the kind of statement sparrow makes above ("she's not beyond reproach just cuz she's a woman"), you validate the idea that many people believe the opposite of that, which I don't belive is true. And by pretending it's a reasonable version of the conversation to have, even just by taking a side, you validate it as a serious topic and shift the whole focus away from the real issue at heart. And this shift/redirect only serves to undermine (a) the very real ways in which sexism has contributed to the long term treatment and perception of Hillary over her 30+ years career, and most recently her campaign, and (b) the ways in which her being a woman will inherently advance women's rights/power/perception in this country and the world at large. I'm not saying you should vote for her just because she's a woman. I'm not saying she should get away with anything just because she's a woman. All I'm saying is that it is impossible for sexism to not play a role in how our culture characterizes and judges Hilary, and thus how YOU (all of you) respond to her. People these days, in general, seem to lack any kind of legitimate historical perspective. and that lack of perspective makes all interpretations of the current political circumstances thereof...basically meaningless.

Is it possible people just don't like her because of the person she is? I mean, can you accept that possibility?

Originally Posted by Rosa

lets also not spread the myth that electing a woman, even if it is Hilary with all her 'warts', won't inherently change how our society views the place of women and the potential they hold in a big and important and worthwhile way. This is, in part, just a product of how biological brains work. We need to see certain kinds of people hold power to really change what we BELIVE they are capable of. Like, to BELIVE it in our neurons. Please don't undermine the value of that.

Yes, young women of America, be proud! You too can be president if you play dirty politics.

Originally Posted by Rosa

Hilary's being a woman isnt the only reason to vote for her. Hillz's being a woman could be considered, to use Michael's definition of the sentiment, the 'cherry on top' of an otherwise pretty fucking qualified and competent candidate. It's not a great singular reason to vote for her (that's why we rejected Carly fiorina and sarah palin) but there's loads of good reasons PLUS she's a woman, AND that's a big deal. (I'm sorry her stance on free trade and interventionism in the Mideast suck; outside of those issues she is pretty solid, really).

She's not pretty solid. She's a classic shitty politician but I'll take her any day over the immoral coward lying Trump.

Originally Posted by Rosa

TLDR. Can we please not undermine the significance of Hilary's gender by reducing the complexity of this issue to some bullshit two toned cartoon world?? Kthks, baiiii (it's 3AM in the uk, where I am right now, and I've had a lot of beer and ginger wine. I'm sorry if this was aggressive or riddled with errors/redundancies! Oh also... I'll be in newcastle this weekend... If any Katg fans are from new castle and want to have a drink I'll be around! I'm also in Oxford until Friday, same offer....)

The significance has been beaten to death and she hasn't even been officially nominated yet.

Originally Posted by Rosa

(<3 you sparrow and Micahael. And Danny obvi.)

+Rosa

Meanwhile, let's start giving Trump the hate he deserves.

He wants to bring back torture (and "a hell of a lot worse"), kill family members of terrorists (war crime) and get rid of courts and pesky due process. This monster should never be allowed anywhere near the White House. He needs to lose and badly to shut this line of thinking down for good!





Trump also wants to weaken libel laws so he can sue anyone who writes a "hit piece" about him. He is the definition of fascist: "an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization."

Remember when he said Women should be punished for having an abortion? Listen to this slimy politician try to straddle the fence until he shows his true colors and admits he thinks women should be punished for having an abortion.



What about Trumps Supreme court nominees? He's going to let conservative groups create a list for him. There will be 3 or 4 seats opening up in the next 4 years. Those seats will be filled for decades by the next president.

Fuck this guy.