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Old 07-13-2016, 08:07 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by My Sweaty Balls View Post
Read the first line of the post two back.

You said black lives matter and campaign zero are the same thing in the previous debate. Black Lives Matter and Campaign Zero seem to disagree with you.

In this case it seems you are the one being deliberately obtuse.

If on the other hand you know something that we don't perhaps you should share that.
No, I said Campaign Zero was founded by BLM activists. This is literally on the about page at the linked site.

I don't know what more you want. You have the link and can read. If that doesn't do the trick, I don't know what will.
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Old 07-13-2016, 10:18 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quick update: I'm getting a lot of great feedback here, on Facebook and by email. Thanks!

I honestly don't remember the campaign zero website from Brunch Matters thread. It's a great resource and it gives me more faith that this has legs but I'm still deeply skeptical there'll be lasting change unless we can rally behind an actual bill or behind a candidate.

I understand how movements work. I also believe that pissing off potential supporters just to get media is counterproductive. Stop blocking highways, bridges and parades. Take the protest to the people in power, not the guy who needs to get to work.
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Old 07-13-2016, 01:05 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quick update: I'm getting a lot of great feedback here, on Facebook and by email. Thanks!

I honestly don't remember the campaign zero website from Brunch Matters thread. It's a great resource and it gives me more faith that this has legs but I'm still deeply skeptical there'll be lasting change unless we can rally behind an actual bill or behind a candidate.

I understand how movements work. I also believe that pissing off potential supporters just to get media is counterproductive. Stop blocking highways, bridges and parades. Take the protest to the people in power, not the guy who needs to get to work.
Blocking highways, bridges and parades is the exact same playbook you praise r.e. Civil Rights, and that took over a decade of agitation to get to a political outcome.

Your beliefs in what is or is not productive are yours, and you're free to hold them. But they appear to be rooted in ignorance, forgetfulness and a fictional view of the history of protest movements.
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Old 07-13-2016, 01:17 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Blocking highways, bridges and parades is the exact same playbook you praise r.e. Civil Rights, and that took over a decade of agitation to get to a political outcome.

Your beliefs in what is or is not productive are yours, and you're free to hold them. But they appear to be rooted in ignorance, forgetfulness and a fictional view of the history of protest movements.
Exactly.

"These sit ins are just going to make enemies out of people."

But weren't folks just touting Bernie's civil disobedience and activism as positive things? I'm confused.
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Old 07-13-2016, 01:19 PM   #25 (permalink)
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when white people protest it's laudable; when black folks do it they're being unreasonable.
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Old 07-13-2016, 01:21 PM   #26 (permalink)
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those sit-ins probably interrupted a /ton/ of brunches.
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Old 07-13-2016, 01:46 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Exactly.

"These sit ins are just going to make enemies out of people."

But weren't folks just touting Bernie's civil disobedience and activism as positive things? I'm confused.
It's really simple: two sets of standards for conduct and respectability. He's just trying to help, after all.

This type of critique is just kabuki for practitioners who are deeply invested in demarcating the boundaries of acceptable anger, reactions and potential change. It's always ever offered as friendly advice, and the advice only gets friendlier and more vigorous as the methods continue.

It's much easier to understand once you realize that he's just trying to have his cake and eat it. The veneer of supporting radical change collapses against the reality of what that entails and how it would come about.
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Old 07-13-2016, 03:56 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Wrong Message

I see both sides of the issue. Protests bring together a community to share and make their message more powerful in their heart. But without a direct plan of action, they are mainly just a walk down the street.

I do take issue with yelling FTP. That is the absolute wrong message when trying to teach civility and fair treatment. Not all police are racist scum just like not all black men are criminals. Don't group. And for fucks sake, don't antagonize them.
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Old 07-13-2016, 04:11 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Listening to the story of someone's acid trip is the same as hearing about the dream they had last night. It's for loved ones only, because they signed up for that shit.
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Old 07-13-2016, 04:38 PM   #30 (permalink)
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No, I said Campaign Zero was founded by BLM activists. This is literally on the about page at the linked site.

I don't know what more you want. You have the link and can read. If that doesn't do the trick, I don't know what will.
I've tried to read every word on this site on two seperate occasions and I did not find that - perhaps provide a link to the actual section or cut and paste the actual words.

also this is from the BLM website (the misconceptions section:

"3. The movement has no agenda. Many believe the Black Lives Matter movement has no agenda — other than yelling and protesting and disrupting the lives of white people. This is also false. Since the earliest days of the movement in Ferguson, groups like the Organization for Black Struggle, the Black Lives Matter network, and others have made both clear and public a list of demands. Those demands include swift and transparent legal investigation of all police shootings of black people; official governmental tracking of the number of citizens killed by police, disaggregated by race; the demilitarization of local police forces; and community accountability mechanisms for rogue police officers. Some proposals like the recently launched Campaign Zero by a group of Ferguson activists call for body cameras on every police officer. But other groups are more reticent about this solution, since it would lead to increased surveillance and possible invasions of privacy, not to mention a massive governmental database of information about communities of color that are already heavily under surveillance by government forces."

So BLM are saying you are wrong (not me)

btw: this is about the extent of a policy section on the BLM webpage. Its a useful summary but no detail.
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