2489: Locker Room Talk

[Los]

I haven't listened to the show, but I saw the stories on Twitter at #notokay. The encouragement to speak out is the one good thing to come from all of this.

The Clinton campaign is using the tapes and accusations to score political points and raise money instead of addressing the Podesta emails. Trump is ignoring his advisors, taking apart his teleprompter and attacking his accusers' looks. All of these issues will still be there after the election, and either candidate won't have the other to use as a distraction.

This will be the beginning of a very negative first term no matter who wins. What do we do when both sides made the wrong choice?

Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders has to keep supporting Clinton while everything he said about her turns out to be true.

[Enunciated Piffle]

Let's be honest. Both candidates are sucky. I think most liberals wanted Bernie. It's a shame the two party system pushed him out, but we're left with these two choices.

We can talk about what lead up to Hillary and Trump all we want. What matters most is: Who of these two can you live with for the next FOUR years?

[Los]

Originally Posted by seamus

Remind me again what Sanders said about Clinton.

That she really does have a different private position on issues than what she says publicly. That Hillary isn't trustworthy, specifically regarding her close ties to Wall Street. She's a moderate, not progressive/liberal as she has claimed publicly. She's out of touch with the middle class, and doesn't really understand the concerns of millenials (this was a big issue of the campaign according to the emails). She also publicly opposes fracking, but privately worked in the State department to further it internationally, ignoring environmental concerns. There's more out there, and more on the way.

These seem minor compared to Trump, which is what her campaign is counting on, but could have cost her the nomination if the leak had happened earlier. It calls into question what she'll actually do as president, versus what she'll say to get elected. It's why Sanders supporters didn't want her in the first place.

Originally Posted by Enunciated Piffle

What matters most is: Who of these two can you live with for the next FOUR years?

People will be disappointed with either one, but I think there's a good chance that Trump will win. We don't know how many people just won't vote out of frustration, which could work in Trump's favor. His supporters can't wait to vote for him, and I think the media underestimates how many there really are.

[Enunciated Piffle]

LOL

[Los]

Originally Posted by seamus

She has a different position privately and publicly

This is true for pretty much all politicians and we are the ones to blame for that. We vote on emotion, we hate details, we hate facts. I've worked in policy, it is 100 times more complex than you want to think it is...

I'm not arguing with your points. It sounds like we both acknowledge that these things revealed about her are true. The question is why anyone would be comfortable with that.

If Hillary publicly supported abortion rights, but privately told a group that she would fight to make all forms of abortion illegal as president, would that be acceptable? That's basically what she did regarding Wall Street's role in the financial crisis, her private position that both sides should be moderate, etc.

It's not unusual for politicians to basically lie to the public, and Hillary is the ultimate politician. That's why she's seen as untrustworthy. You don't see examples of this in the political histories of people like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren. Warren didn't run, but we had the option of chosing someone with a history that couldn't be used against them in the way that Hillary's has been repeatedly. She had political baggage long before this election. The fact that she has these new issues makes you wonder what's coming over the next four years. Why would we put ourselves in the position where someone like that would be the only good choice?

This isn't a right-wing argument that Hillary is evil or corrupt, just that the Democratic party chose a candidate who is unpopular, who lacks enthusiam and isn't interested in change. We knew these things from the beginning.

What kind of president will she be when she doesn't need your vote anymore? Whether you supported Obama or not, we didn't have to ask this about him. He had very specific things that he stood for, and made historic changes. That's what we should be looking for in a candidate. It's too late now though.