2504: Cultural Appreciation

[Sparrow]

it's received quite the opposite, in my experience; the make-up community has mad respect for drag b/c skillz, it's reciprocal--drag kings--, and as performance and art go, i think it comes from an honest place of expression. ain't a one of us butt hurt at how good they look. as for its comedic edge, that's just burlesque showin' its roots.

[Sparrow]

if you don't know Dino Foxx, get to know this Glam Bear.

[Los]

Everything is exaggerated to be funny though, right? They're not trying to be like real women. I listened to some of the show, and the guest seemed to agree that it's mockery.

Blackface was just comedy too. I just don't see how it's different.

[Sparrow]

it can be, but it's not necessarily so. To Wong Foo is a mainstream example; Patrick Swayze is the /most/ statuesque and lovely.

i don't know, drag is so powerful and positive it seems unfair to compare it to something specifically done to take someone else's power away. or maybe in falls in the realm of as a woman i don't need you to feel offended on my behalf. it's cool, bruh.

[Los]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

i don't know, drag is so powerful and positive it seems unfair to compare it to something specifically done to take someone else's power away. or maybe in falls in the realm of as a woman i don't need you to feel offended on my behalf. it's cool, bruh.

I'm just saying. Blackface wasn't done originally to be offensive. I don't think anybody that liked it thought is was a bad thing.

As far as I now, it was a way for white performers to portray black characters on stage. The exaggerated stereotypes were added for comedic effect later, but it still was just seen as a comedy act. I think it was even still around during the 70's in Europe.

I didn't hear them say anything on the show that went against that comparison. It's not a big deal, I just think it's interesting.

[kevinquinn]

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[memecherry]

Originally Posted by Los

Drag queens seem like white people in blackface to me. It's like they're making fun of women by being clownish.

I cannot speak for all drag queens, but for all the ones I know, they are not making fun of women... Being a drag queen is usually very expensive & quite painful for most men. All the ones I have talked to are inspired by pretty things, makeup, glitter, heels, etc. They celebrate/honor all those aspects of femininity.

D R A G - Dressing Resembling A Girl ==> Where "drag" was first born, in shakespeare plays for all the female roles, as all actors were male.

Modern day drag in the form most people know is a usually seen as a celebratory art form.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_queen

Blackface - no person, that I know of, put on blackface to celebrate black people. I cannot quote anyone saying they grew up watching black people move along life & were fascinated by them, their culture, their clothes. If anything it was makeup put on by white people to perform for other white people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface

I wrap this up with this sentiment: issues of race & issues of gender are VERY different monsters... I believe issues of racism can be addressed through social change, hopefully leading to respect & equality. Gender issues are a bit more complicated given the biological aspects, so given that women have it pretty rough, and probably will for a very long time... I think it's kinda cool to see men ultimately celebrating us...

All of this very much dances on the lines of cultural appropriation, appreciation & celebration...

[Enunciated Piffle]

Originally Posted by Los

Drag queens seem like white people in blackface to me. It's like they're making fun of women by being clownish.

I always go by if it's not hurting anyone, then who cares.

It does seem in the case of Mrs Bunny here that it is a pain to do drag. What with the junk tuck and whatnot. But whatever floats her boat. The one thing I didn't get is why no video? Was it cuz Bunny was dressed as a man? Or the makeup wasn't on right?

I admire the dedication, but it also seems like a hassle.

[memecherry]

Originally Posted by Enunciated Piffle

I always go by if it's not hurting anyone, then who cares.

It does seem in the case of Mrs Bunny here that it is a pain to do drag. What with the junk tuck and whatnot. But whatever floats her boat. The one thing I didn't get is why no video? Was it cuz Bunny was dressed as a man? Or the makeup wasn't on right?

I admire the dedication, but it also seems like a hassle.

Seems LB was out of drag that day & wanted to keep the illusion...

Even Rupaul barely gets in drag unless he absolutely needs to for Drag Race!

I would think that after decades of tucking your junk, and putting on a face (which believe me, even as a woman is not easy to do on the levels that queens do) many queens don't do it unless they are getting paid...

[Los]

Originally Posted by memecherry

I cannot speak for all drag queens, but for all the ones I know, they are not making fun of women...

Maybe this guest wasn't a good example, but everything seemed more offensive than positive. I think they were even saying that they get offended by so many women being into it. Maybe I heard that wrong, but it can't be celebratory if that's true.

Blackface also started with all white actors in theater. Later on, even black performers wore blackface. It was just a style of comedy at the time.

If this wasn't to the level of being cartoonish, I could see it as celebrating women, but I don't know. It's not usually a compliment when someone is doing an exaggerated/stereotypical impression, whether it's about gender, race, etc. I understand that people see it as positive, but that can be true for anything. It's not until people get some distance from it that they might see it differently.

I think cultural appropriation and appreciation are different because they don't involve exaggeration for entertainment. That's when it crosses the line into mockery. Like you said, blackface isn't a celebration of black people.

It's just my opinion.