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View Poll Results: Have you ever been arrested?
Yes 21 25.61%
No 61 74.39%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-24-2017, 06:56 AM   #131 (permalink)
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For example, what laws were broken with Chemda and the others who were in jail with her? Probably none but they got treated like shit and ate garbage.
Idk about you but I don't have to do something illegal in order to be held accountable for my shitty/unprofessional actions at work.
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:01 AM   #132 (permalink)
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Idk about you but I don't have to do something illegal in order to be held accountable for my shitty/unprofessional actions at work.
What do you suggest?
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:13 AM   #133 (permalink)
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We need some kind of detention bill of rights. Right now, it seems we are holding them to basic human rights. We should have a higher standard for people who go through the system.
This sounds hard to accomplish without a change in the perception of prisons and the people in them. One of the reasons conditions are so poor is that society thinks the prison population is fundamentally bad and needs to be punished. Why should we increase funding to better the health and education of the WORST people in our country? Let those rapists and murderers rot, who cares!

The first prisons in the US were established with a focus on trying to rehabilitate criminals, to transform their violent tendencies so they would come out as productive members of society again. There was a belief that prisoners could be redeemed. Unfortunately this belief waned in popularity once the methods put in place to rehab criminals proved ineffective, mostly because their cures for criminality were fucking stupid. At Eastern State Penitentiary in Philly in the early 1800s, solitary confinement was seen as a revolutionary treatment that would allow prisoners to reflect on their misdeeds and change their bad habits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter...ntiary#History). They designed the building so that prisoners would almost never come into contact with each other. When it actually drove people out of their fucking minds, the people in charge didn't blame themselves, they blamed the criminal mind for being so depraved and beyond repair, and changed their mission from rehabilitating prisoners to punishing them.

Anyway, this is all to say I think an attempt to increase the conditions in prisons must be tied to a thorough re-examination of what exactly we want them to accomplish. Currently they house a large population that the rest of society doesn't want to deal with, a population that suffers from systemic problems like poverty, violence, racism, poor health, etc. Like others have said, addressing those problems head on is how we unravel the prison state.
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:22 AM   #134 (permalink)
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Just saw this article posted by iamgrilledcheese in another thread which gets to the point: https://m.mic.com/articles/amp/10913...-the-u-s-won-t

Fucking sweden
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:27 AM   #135 (permalink)
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Fucking sweden
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[Sweden is] a relatively inclusive societies with widely shared prosperity and a low degree of corrosive racial tension (mainly due to racial homogeneity).
therein lies the rub. we can't even start making effective progress in our prisons if we don't work this out in tandem. further complicated that it often takes generations to make this kind of progress, we may very well not live to see the fruits of our labor. deep healing is slow. you can't vote it in 2 and 4 and 8 years down the line or correct it with legislation. this is hearts and minds territory.


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Prisoners and staff eat together in the community spaces built throughout the prison.


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It seems that there's a self-fulfilling dimension to the way a society chooses to imprison those that it deems criminal: If you tell someone they cannot get better, they won't; if you tell someone they can, they might just have a decent shot.
America needs a reframing. i certainly don't see it happening. i fully believe all of this will get worse long, long before it gets better.
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Old 03-24-2017, 01:03 PM   #136 (permalink)
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I got it the solution to all the problems everyone has to answer to either Keith or Chemda when a crime is commuted Chemda for the not so serious crimes and kieth's brand of justice for the more serious DONE
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Old 03-25-2017, 10:35 AM   #137 (permalink)
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To answer Michael's question about what should have been my punishment for not paying an old ticket:

This is hard to answer because the more I think about it, the more I think they made up that I had that ticket. I never saw evidence of it. The judge and attorney seemed somewhat confused by why I was there. I never got a chance to hear what I really did or speak my mind about it.

BUT let's say I didn't pay the ticket. That could have happened by accident or they could have not gotten my payment. (Terrible system that I can get a new (not renewed... a brand new) gov't issues license plus more than one visit to the DMV AND their site and this didn't come up even though it's directly related.)

Let's say someone neglects to pay. It's very likely that they don't have the money to pay such a large amount. That's probably why they committed such a crime to begin with. Then there's financial penalties that keep adding up.

So, what do you do with petty crimes that people can't afford or neglect?

If I HAD to say right now even though it's not my job to come up with these kinds of solutions for a terrifying system that doesn't have any issue with treating people like shit because the whole system is really garbage so asking me to start with punishment is hard buuuuut:

What about he makes me aware that there's a 15 year old ticket in my name? He gives me info to a clear website and phone number that I can call. I need to call them within 30 days to discuss what's possible. Let's say that's court. I should choose a day that fits my schedule. (I don't see anything wrong with having night court either. Our govt seems to think that working hard/late is admirable. They don't see working the night shift as a punishment.)

If I don't respond in 30 days, I should be in bigger trouble. That's when a fine can start. A LOW fine! Remember "it's not about the money". It's about the crime, right? A $20 fine is not nothing. Don't forget that these are the same people that think people can live comfortably on $7.25 (PRE-TAX) an hour. So, that brings me to the thought of maybe the fine should be a sliding scale?

For those who think I'm being too easy on people who break the law, please please take into consideration: humanity. That we, as humans, will always be criminals in this system. Not just hippy/rebel me. It's you. You are the same to these people unless you can help them financially. And if you don't think that's a fact, then we are not starting from a true place.
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Old 03-28-2017, 06:19 PM   #138 (permalink)
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To answer Michael's question about what should have been my punishment for not paying an old ticket:

This is hard to answer because the more I think about it, the more I think they made up that I had that ticket. I never saw evidence of it. The judge and attorney seemed somewhat confused by why I was there. I never got a chance to hear what I really did or speak my mind about it.

BUT let's say I didn't pay the ticket. That could have happened by accident or they could have not gotten my payment. (Terrible system that I can get a new (not renewed... a brand new) gov't issues license plus more than one visit to the DMV AND their site and this didn't come up even though it's directly related.)

Let's say someone neglects to pay. It's very likely that they don't have the money to pay such a large amount. That's probably why they committed such a crime to begin with. Then there's financial penalties that keep adding up.

So, what do you do with petty crimes that people can't afford or neglect?

If I HAD to say right now even though it's not my job to come up with these kinds of solutions for a terrifying system that doesn't have any issue with treating people like shit because the whole system is really garbage so asking me to start with punishment is hard buuuuut:

What about he makes me aware that there's a 15 year old ticket in my name? He gives me info to a clear website and phone number that I can call. I need to call them within 30 days to discuss what's possible. Let's say that's court. I should choose a day that fits my schedule. (I don't see anything wrong with having night court either. Our govt seems to think that working hard/late is admirable. They don't see working the night shift as a punishment.)

If I don't respond in 30 days, I should be in bigger trouble. That's when a fine can start. A LOW fine! Remember "it's not about the money". It's about the crime, right? A $20 fine is not nothing. Don't forget that these are the same people that think people can live comfortably on $7.25 (PRE-TAX) an hour. So, that brings me to the thought of maybe the fine should be a sliding scale?

For those who think I'm being too easy on people who break the law, please please take into consideration: humanity. That we, as humans, will always be criminals in this system. Not just hippy/rebel me. It's you. You are the same to these people unless you can help them financially. And if you don't think that's a fact, then we are not starting from a true place.
Lots of good points. Here are two comments.

1) I think it is your job to help come up with a solution for the terrifying system that doesn't have issue with treating people like shit. It's all our of jobs. All citizens should be involved with this decision process.

2) It's interesting that you suggest a sliding scale. Finland has implemented something like that and fined someone over $100,000 for speeding https://www.theatlantic.com/business...ticket/387484/
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Old 03-28-2017, 07:00 PM   #139 (permalink)
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Lots of good points. Here are two comments.



1) I think it is your job to help come up with a solution for the terrifying system that doesn't have issue with treating people like shit. It's all our of jobs. All citizens should be involved with this decision process.



2) It's interesting that you suggest a sliding scale. Finland has implemented something like that and fined someone over $100,000 for speeding https://www.theatlantic.com/business...ticket/387484/


Put me down for capping the fine.

The thing about it being up to me to come up with something though... I can't help but believe that they can come up with this. Because the people who "come up" with law are "experts" and this is the most basic part of the job. They're not lacking in ideas. They have my ideas already. They have examples of ideas that are being implemented in other countries. We don't have mind blowing ideas.

They. Don't. Want. To. Change.

If they did. It would change.


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Old 03-28-2017, 07:04 PM   #140 (permalink)
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isn't the point of representative democracy to elect people to do this shit? that's their job. our job is to put the right people there to do it. i really don't see the point in invalidating Chemda b/c she's not coming up with a brilliant, totally workable, perfect, magic solution that's up to Michael's standards to this complex problem.
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