2593: Jailbird

[The Girl]

To answer Michael's question about what should have been my punishment for not paying an old ticket:

This is hard to answer because the more I think about it, the more I think they made up that I had that ticket. I never saw evidence of it. The judge and attorney seemed somewhat confused by why I was there. I never got a chance to hear what I really did or speak my mind about it.

BUT let's say I didn't pay the ticket. That could have happened by accident or they could have not gotten my payment. (Terrible system that I can get a new (not renewed... a brand new) gov't issues license plus more than one visit to the DMV AND their site and this didn't come up even though it's directly related.)

Let's say someone neglects to pay. It's very likely that they don't have the money to pay such a large amount. That's probably why they committed such a crime to begin with. Then there's financial penalties that keep adding up.

So, what do you do with petty crimes that people can't afford or neglect?

If I HAD to say right now even though it's not my job to come up with these kinds of solutions for a terrifying system that doesn't have any issue with treating people like shit because the whole system is really garbage so asking me to start with punishment is hard buuuuut:

What about he makes me aware that there's a 15 year old ticket in my name? He gives me info to a clear website and phone number that I can call. I need to call them within 30 days to discuss what's possible. Let's say that's court. I should choose a day that fits my schedule. (I don't see anything wrong with having night court either. Our govt seems to think that working hard/late is admirable. They don't see working the night shift as a punishment.)

If I don't respond in 30 days, I should be in bigger trouble. That's when a fine can start. A LOW fine! Remember "it's not about the money". It's about the crime, right? A $20 fine is not nothing. Don't forget that these are the same people that think people can live comfortably on $7.25 (PRE-TAX) an hour. So, that brings me to the thought of maybe the fine should be a sliding scale?

For those who think I'm being too easy on people who break the law, please please take into consideration: humanity. That we, as humans, will always be criminals in this system. Not just hippy/rebel me. It's you. You are the same to these people unless you can help them financially. And if you don't think that's a fact, then we are not starting from a true place.

[MichaelApproved]

Originally Posted by The Girl

To answer Michael's question about what should have been my punishment for not paying an old ticket:

This is hard to answer because the more I think about it, the more I think they made up that I had that ticket. I never saw evidence of it. The judge and attorney seemed somewhat confused by why I was there. I never got a chance to hear what I really did or speak my mind about it.

BUT let's say I didn't pay the ticket. That could have happened by accident or they could have not gotten my payment. (Terrible system that I can get a new (not renewed... a brand new) gov't issues license plus more than one visit to the DMV AND their site and this didn't come up even though it's directly related.)

Let's say someone neglects to pay. It's very likely that they don't have the money to pay such a large amount. That's probably why they committed such a crime to begin with. Then there's financial penalties that keep adding up.

So, what do you do with petty crimes that people can't afford or neglect?

If I HAD to say right now even though it's not my job to come up with these kinds of solutions for a terrifying system that doesn't have any issue with treating people like shit because the whole system is really garbage so asking me to start with punishment is hard buuuuut:

What about he makes me aware that there's a 15 year old ticket in my name? He gives me info to a clear website and phone number that I can call. I need to call them within 30 days to discuss what's possible. Let's say that's court. I should choose a day that fits my schedule. (I don't see anything wrong with having night court either. Our govt seems to think that working hard/late is admirable. They don't see working the night shift as a punishment.)

If I don't respond in 30 days, I should be in bigger trouble. That's when a fine can start. A LOW fine! Remember "it's not about the money". It's about the crime, right? A $20 fine is not nothing. Don't forget that these are the same people that think people can live comfortably on $7.25 (PRE-TAX) an hour. So, that brings me to the thought of maybe the fine should be a sliding scale?

For those who think I'm being too easy on people who break the law, please please take into consideration: humanity. That we, as humans, will always be criminals in this system. Not just hippy/rebel me. It's you. You are the same to these people unless you can help them financially. And if you don't think that's a fact, then we are not starting from a true place.

Lots of good points. Here are two comments.

1) I think it is your job to help come up with a solution for the terrifying system that doesn't have issue with treating people like shit. It's all our of jobs. All citizens should be involved with this decision process.

2) It's interesting that you suggest a sliding scale. Finland has implemented something like that and fined someone over $100,000 for speeding https://www.theatlantic.com/business...ticket/387484/

[The Girl]

Originally Posted by MichaelApproved

Lots of good points. Here are two comments.



1) I think it is your job to help come up with a solution for the terrifying system that doesn't have issue with treating people like shit. It's all our of jobs. All citizens should be involved with this decision process.



2) It's interesting that you suggest a sliding scale. Finland has implemented something like that and fined someone over $100,000 for speeding https://www.theatlantic.com/business...ticket/387484/

Put me down for capping the fine.

The thing about it being up to me to come up with something though... I can't help but believe that they can come up with this. Because the people who "come up" with law are "experts" and this is the most basic part of the job. They're not lacking in ideas. They have my ideas already. They have examples of ideas that are being implemented in other countries. We don't have mind blowing ideas.

They. Don't. Want. To. Change.

If they did. It would change.


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[Sparrow]

isn't the point of representative democracy to elect people to do this shit? that's their job. our job is to put the right people there to do it. i really don't see the point in invalidating Chemda b/c she's not coming up with a brilliant, totally workable, perfect, magic solution that's up to Michael's standards to this complex problem.

[MichaelApproved]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

i really don't see the point in invalidating Chemda

Where have I done that?

[Sparrow]

in matters of style, not substance sometimes. please forgive me if this sounds critical, i don't mean it to be, i'm just looking from the outside:

an example might be in the timing of a solution-based policy approach during the original conversation with Chemda. you like to come at things within a logical framework in a cool rational space; which is fine because that's how you do you and it's a fine way to talk about such things. in that moment Chemda could not meet you in that space, but you insisted she put that square peg she was currently inside through this round hole. it's not that there was disagreement, it's just nobody was getting what they needed out of the conversation b/c you insisted there was only the round hole to use. yes, round hole, but also, ya know, square.

other times might be excluding or reducing the human elements surrounding policy. it's like, yes, the front side of the barn is important what with the doors and all, but that don't mean the beams ain't holding it up.

[MichaelApproved]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

you insisted she put that square peg she was currently inside through this round hole. it's not that there was disagreement, it's just nobody was getting what they needed out of the conversation b/c you insisted there was only the round hole to use. yes, round hole, but also, ya know, square.

I hear you. I have a hard time understanding the point of a conversation, if we're not going to try and solve something. I get that there's a point to venting and other expressions, I just have a hard time being in that mindset.

[Sparrow]

and that's our Michael! truly, allow me to affirm that it's not a negative trait. there's a place for that and it's a lot of fun for me sometimes to extend as much as i'm able to play on that logic jungle gym with you. ya know, so long as i can yell real loud.

[bellalugosi]

Chemda I am so sorry you had that experience.

Canadian here. I was one of the people who voted yes. I was arrested once for shoplifting. The store security lady who caught me treated me like garbage. I asked her things and she just ignored me like I wasn't even there. When she did look at me it was like she was looking at something stuck to her shoe. She also wrote 3 pages about the incident.

I stole $6 worth of food at the grocery store. I'm not saying it wasn't wrong. I know it was. But I'd had surgery, and it was botched so I had to have another surgery and I'd just gotten home and on pain killers. I literally had no food and it was 5 days before I was getting any more money. I had a little money so I bought some stuff and put a couple of things in my bag. I know it was wrong. I just didn't have enough money and I was desperate.

Now, my experience with the cops was completely different. There was one cop who came to arrest me for it (I guess, I might not be using the right terms at times here) he was SO kind. She still wasn't acknowledging me when he arrived but he was. He explained everything to me. I didn't have ID on me so he brought me home. He didn't handcuff me or anything and he walked out of the store behind me, he didn't make it obvious I was with him. He drove me home and came in and actually talked to me. Like he said, what happened? And I told him and he told me it was OK. I started crying and he got me a glass of water. He was here 20 minutes. He explained the whole process of what I had to do, I had a date where I had to go and get fingerprinted and photographed and a court date. He said if I couldn't make it I had to call at least 24 hours in advance.

When I went to the place to get fingerprinted, the lady was also very kind. She told me this wouldn't affect me in a job search and said she hoped things got better for me.

Then when I went to court I saw the lawyer for a minute, explained what happened, and waited to see the judge. The judge just accepted the guilty verdict and I didn't get a fine. I was petrified while waiting because other people were there for shoplifting and some of them were getting $200 fines. I wouldn't be able to pay that. Luckily I didn't get a fine.

I do think about how much money my $6 theft cost "the system".

I know I was VERY VERY lucky all along the way. I don't know what would happen if I was treated in any of the ways Chemda was treated.

(The cops here aren't perfect by any means, but it's not like in the US.)

[MichaelApproved]

Originally Posted by bellalugosi

Chemda I am so sorry you had that experience.

Canadian here. I was one of the people who voted yes. I was arrested once for shoplifting.

(The cops here aren't perfect by any means, but it's not like in the US.)

Which part of Canada did this happen? My impression is certain parts of Canada are more conservative than others. Do you think this treatment is the same throughout Canada or just the area you live in?