2690: Rose-Colored Glasses
 

with Jessica Watkins and Andrea Allan – Walking America; drive-ins, Atomic Blonde, Girls Trip, and 4D movies; suicide by text; teens mock drowning adult; Can evil people change?; Pete Rose’s underage sex; 96-year-old nazis

Guests:
Andrea Allan
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Jessica Watkins
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"Part of me wants you to try and to fail"

I understand Chemda's point of view with regards to the text exchange. I feel like she's just doing her best to not to project pessimism onto the situation. It's easy to read too much into the intent of the messages and there's a number of additional possibilities. Also we don't know what extent they've had similar conversations face to face, they may have talked a lot more in person and we're getting a perhaps skewed portrait of her cause we're just looking at the compressed text trail.

Assuming innocent intent:
- She may have gotten to a point where she was absolutely convinced he was going to attempt kill himself at some point or another (she would have to feel like everything is out of her control in life in general)
- She may have been certain for some reason he would choke and fail to kill himself and could have been hoping that he would rebound and value his life more afterwards (hitting rock bottom?)

Assuming nihilistic intent:
- She may be suicidal herself and feel that "death is just a release from suffering" in which case she may be correlating her behavior with assisted euthanasia.

Also she sounds more nihilistic to me and not psychotic.

Assuming morbid intent:
- You could read in a morbid fascination with the idea of death and him killing himself in her tone. Leading in to her intoxicated with the power of pushing him towards killing himself.
- She could be completely unempathetic towards him and just want his existence and complaining out of her life.

My thought exactly, if she actually felt defeated and she couldn't convince him to get help, she should have just backed out of the relationship and contact with him. He didn't sound dangerous like he was going to harm others, so worst case she should have left. Trying your best to convince someone to kill themselves doesn't sound like the right choice, unless they're some crazy killer.

It's hard to see how Chemda thinks that a good state of mind would be "well I tried to convince him to get help, he won't, so let's go ahead and get this suicide over with".

It's pretty obvious this girl is a complete piece of shit. And I agree with Keith that there's going to be no redemption of her life.

But I do disagree with the conviction of involuntary manslaughter. What actual law did she break? If her words convinced him to kill himself, then all of these are equally illegal:

- Why don't you just kill yourself?
- I really think you should buy a gun and kill yourself.
- I don't care if you say you'll kill yourself if we break up; it's over.

Yes, there is a difference between these and what the girl said, but I don't believe the legal system gets to draw that kind of distinction.

For the record, I don't believe it's a good state of mind. I hope I didn't come across like that.
I think she's sick. I want to know what kind of sick she is and why.
She did a bad thing. I want to know if she's a monster. I want to know if she's a sociopath, a vicious killer, and/or whatever.
I'm not saying what she did was ok.



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It looks like you're agreeing that the three examples I gave are all illegal?

The context is the three statements I wrote.

Your "fire" argument is silly and will not be addressed.

I didn't think you were saying what she did was OK

But you do generally come from a "its a good person that's just confused and had a momentarily laps of judgement"

There is a decent amount of people that are assholes, also a not insignificant number of people have mental illness quite possibly there is a huge overlap. If they show you bad behaviour I think its fair to acknowledge that and not pretend everything is rainbows and unicorns.

Doesn't mean you need to assume everybody is terrible, doesn't mean people can't change, doesn't mean you cut everybody off immediately - just be on guard a little?

I too want to understand this girl.
From the age of 19-23, I was with someone that was depressed. At one point I walked upstairs in our apartment to find him crying with a shot gun in his hand. This was about 2 years into our relationship. He wanted to kill himself.
I did not tell him to do it. I did not give him suggestions.
I could not convince him to help himself. I could not help him. As his significant other, I felt a responsibility to help him.
We never discussed him actually committing suicide. However, I know I would not have responded by giving him suggestions or telling him to kill himself.
When he turned 21 he began drinking and that is when I broke up with him.
About 9 years later he did commit suicide.
And at his funeral, I couldn't help but think, maybe that was his only way to happiness. That he was finally at peace.
Maybe this was just me 'dealing' with this tragedy.
Even if I believe now, that was his only way out, I still would have NEVER told him to kill himself.
But then again that is just me.

"That is just me. A human fucking being."