2744: Privilege
 

Landmark; KATG Polls; Keith’s weigh-in; access to nutritional information and white privilege

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Unfortunately in Georgia... tomato sauce was legally declared a vegetable so that the state could save money on school lunches and offer ketchup as a veggie substitute and claim that pizza is a complete meal (with the pizza sauce being the vegetable)

I don't think that families are confused that they can't eat ice cream for dinner. Instead they're serving fried chicken, mashed potatoes, and corn. Look! Two different types of vegetables! Or they do serve a salad...with a nice coating of ranch dressing. But a salad is salad, so it must be healthy. It takes time, effort, and money to be able to experiment with healthier foods. Add to that that there are rural communities where the grocery store has a horrible selection of fresh produce (where I grew up) or urban food deserts, and it makes it even harder to learn how to eat better. It's hard.

And diets fail, because a diet is not the same as a lifestyle change. Diets are where you have to follow strict rules, and once you don't follow that diet anymore, it becomes apparent that they didn't actually learn how to be healthier, so you gain all that weight back. A lifestyle change is a permanent change where you eat healthier and move more. Any huge change in life is difficult. And here I am getting pissed off every time apple updates the iphone, so how can I judge someone for not making sweeping changes about every part of their life?

hhhhmmmmmmmmm ranch...

Chemda did a good job of articulating that the nutrition privilege is really about freedom from stress. Less healthy instant food and anything high in the sugar/salt/fat does give a quick hit of 'feel good' for a moment. It's understandable why people use food this way and everything about modern America makes unhealthy living the path of least resistance. Yeah our society is broken. You can choose if you want to fight it and make yourself healthy or fall into feeling like garbage. Why would it be easy? Nature itself is a struggle. Fighting to stay healthy in modern society still sounds a lot easier than going off into the woods to live in nature and have to hunt for meat and chop wood to stay warm and be fucked the minute a rattlesnake bites your dumb ass.

God I want a Twinkie right now...

There is a term here in the US "Urban Desert" and Detroit is one (I live in a suburb of Detroit). There are no super markets in Detroit, the only way to get food 7 days a week is to buy it at a liqueur store, Bodega or as we call them here party stores. It's expensive and not a lot of healthy choices.
We have a farmers market in Detroit on Saturday all year round but what is at the market changes with the season. They have Tuesday and Sunday open only Jun-Sep. AH probably more than you need to know...
My point is getting healthy food to eat involves a using the bus system, our laughable elevated train or a lot of walking if you don't have a car. Now this is the Motor City so you might rightly imagine our public transit system is, lets just say, not the best. Lets just say we are not getting any awards for public transit here. ah again too much...
The point is there is nothing easy about eating healthy if you are poor and live it an urban desert. I don't know how you fix it, I don't know enough to talk about how it happened I'm sure there are not nice things. But I do recognize that eating healthy starts with having a choice and that is not only about money or education.

That urban food desert thing is really freaky...farming may not be practical for people in that situation, or they are just overwhelmed learning how to do it, but more and more people are getting into urban farming...it takes some time to get results though. Amazon.com does deliver things like rice, cous cous, canned vegetables, which isn't perfect but healthier than what I imagine they'd have at a liquor store...

Ha we thought the same thing.

I want to note that in the aforementioned thread (titled "Vice") Keith was who brought up *white* privilege in relation to food. Probably a Freudian slip.

I had just said privilege until that point.

Also, there are major health disparities between races due to differences in access information, food and healthcare.

[Maps are of prevalence of self reported obesity]

White:
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/images/d...6_ob_white.jpg

Black:
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/images/d...6_ob_black.jpg

There are also health and obesity disparities between geographic locations (the North and South/Midwest)

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/images/d...ty-overall.jpg

Amazon only works if you have a computer and internet. I'm talking about the poor who are at a nutritional disadvantage.

Also, consider generations of folks grow up eating poorly due to low income or nutritional food scarcity and the problem perpetuates.

This is really a complicated issue with a lot of issues that are different depending on where you live how much money you have and what your parents learned about what food is good. To some people just having any food is all they can think about now is this food is good for me, It's all good even if your mac n' cheese has florescent orange powder for cheese. I wonder if that what Trump uses for tanning powder...

Notice how this income map looks mighty similar...

Map too large to embed

We have to take into account different perceptions of poor/low income.

I've had someone tell me they grew up poor, lived on a farm and their daddy raised and sold cattle for a living. Oh and she rode horses for fun....that means they owned land, owned a business, and had enough discretionary income to own and care for horses.

I've also heard people say they grew up poor but they had four-wheelers and owned an unnecessary amount of guns and their dads had free time to go hunting on the weekends.

Some grow up "poor" but never had to wonder if they'd have dinner that night.

These are very different experiences of "poor" than what a lot of people who live in impoverished areas in both the rural south and urban communities have.

No Apia, everyone does not have access to the internet. Everyone does not have enough money for a bank account to be able to buy things online. Everyone is not able to use Amazon. Not everyone has access to a gym or even a safe enough neighborhood to take a walk outside. Heck, everyone doesn't have time to look into all these different methods or think about the nutrition in their food. Some people are just happy to eat. And the cheapest food is the worst for you.

If you haven't eaten all day a Twinkie will always taste good and it will always make you feel better.

The thing that Keith did, where he ate what he perceives as healthy food all day and then binged at night

...that's one of the reasons why diets don't work.

That's not just a personal screw up or lack of "will power", it's biology and psychology at work.

That's the most common response to restricted eating (dieting).

Its sometimes called a restrict-binge cycle. Some people are able to hold out in the restrict phase longer than others (weeks, months, years).

When the binge happens it is often way more calorie dense than if you had just eaten whatever it is you wanted to begin with. Resulting in weight gain...which triggers you to want to restrict (diet) again...etc, etc

Yup this is done in a lot of urban areas in NYC and other cities

While listening to this episode all i kept saying is that none of this has to do with being black or white and white privilege. This is a class issue. Which is why white people and minorities can relate to this conversation. Because typically with money you can get access to better healthier food. Now that does not mean that because you have money means you won't be obese and make poor food decisions BUT you will likely know but just choose to do otherwise. And yes we can say which race primarily occupies the middle to upper class but that distinction doesn't matter in this argument. Just look at the stats of who is primarily on welfare - (lower class), white people. So it is safe to assume that these people lack income, are lower class and lack access to healthy food. A class issue.

We should also note that another reason why people don't learn about their bad choices is because another thing that comes with the lower class is lack of adequate healthcare. If they were steadily going to the doctor annually like privileged (not white privilege)people are then they may find out from blood work that their numbers are out of whack as a result of their poor eating and their weight is too high. In that convo alone they will get some education from their doctor.

All in all i really think this is a class thing (specifically about not knowing what is good for you and not good for you).

I'm not interested in separating the two.

exactly!! What's interesting is i was raised in a single parent household all of that jazz. I would say we were upper lower class LOL since my mom worked and we had insurance. But we were definitely living a low frills lifestyle. I hadn't even thought of this in my previous comment but we actually started eating healthier by way of my insurance/doctor example. We were eating fried chicken and all of that then one year for a physical it came back that I had high cholesterol. From that day forward chicken was always baked and the skin removed. i'm a gotdamn adult now and i eat the skin! lol and my blood work is fine LOL

Obviously. But this is an American based podcast. When they say "South" and "North" we know they are taking about regions of the US. They don't need to explain because almost all the conversations are about America.

I am aware that Europe exists. Thanks.

Jesus be a fence...

What a convoluted discussion to try and stick the label of white privilege and even gender onto this discussion...

The conversation always seems to get "convoluted" when marginalized groups point out their differences. Funny how that works.

Even when adjusting for income there is still health disparities between races due to differences in access, education and stressor.

Gender only got brought in cause men do in fact lose weight easier than women due to muscle mass and hormone differences.

Also because its harder to try to explain privilege to a white man than a white woman. White women have more experience with discrimination and loss of privilege, therefore it's just easier to make the connection.

My dear.
We are the silly foreigners on here with the European privilege of healthcare, good public schools and an okish government that is not currently fucking up terribly.

Yes even you growing up in Eastern Europe. And not having bananas is not comparable to famine in the 90s in North Korea. It just isn't.

Keith is not the only one that is ignorant about having privilege.

You’re right, that must be it.

It never fails.

*Someone brings up privilege*

Person with said privilege: I too have experienced hardships! *gives whole life story*

__________

Lemme try to illustrate how this looks:

Person in wheelchair: Differently able people get paid less and get less job opportunities. Able bodied people have privilege.

Able bodied person: What are you talking about?! It's not easy for anyone to get a job! I get paid pennies! It has nothing to do with my body!

Able bodied person #2: The economy is bad for everyone. You are just convoluting the conversation by bringing up disability discrimination. Let's just focus on the topic at hand.

Yes it was bad, fucking bad, super bad not great at all. I know my history lessons.

But that's not happening now here, we overcame we got shit done
Because society is meant to improve and we did and stuff is still bad for some people.

But currently the US is backsliding into a tailspin of horrendous education/obesity/healthcare/racism/religion bullshit that a current democracy really shouldn't experience.

I find that super scary and as much as I like to fight on these forums about all kinds of topics - saying 'oh why don't you just eat right from the gardens you can plant in your free time in your huge backyards and then order some healthy food from Amazon you lazy sillygoooses' is not helping.

Your Polish childhood is not relevant to a discussion on obesity and poverty/race in America.

Especially when you only bring it up to show that "Look! Things happened to me too! That means race is not connected to poverty!"

I'm sure it is a fascinating story.

I googled. Germany does not keep race statistics. But Google is full of anecdotal stories from brown and black immigrants facing discrimination. Poverty may indeed be connected to ethnicity/race in your country they just don't track it like the US. Ive read a lot of articles through the years from African and Caribbean people experiencing discrimination in Europe. When I was in London this past summer I met a Kenyan man who was upset because they do face discrimination but don't have the networks/communities/etc that African Americans have to do anything about it.

Europe is not a racial utopia. You just have to watch a few people throw bananas at black players in soccer games to see that. Sure... They'll throw a banana then go back and pay the one black girl at work the same as everyone else...

It's not just about sports fans. The banana throwing shows how much racism is accepted in Europe.

How many time do you think American football fans would be allowed to throw bananas before bananas got banned from stadiums?

How many times before they would just get their ass beat by the crowd?

The fact that it happens so often at such large sporting events is indicative of something much greater.

Wow bitte denk mal für drei Cent mit, daß nur weil wir aus gutem Grund das Wort Rasse hier nicht so gerne nutzen wir nicht die exakt gleichen Probleme habe.
Meine Güte gehts noch? Hallo? Du stellst dich doch sonst nicht so doof an.
Attachment 62005

I don't watch sports either but the blacks like to show worldwide solidarity when it comes to racism so the stories get written about in black media.

Every few months I see a story with a fine ass brown or black soccer player crying cause a stadium full of people are throwing things and yelling racial slurs at him.

I do follow Serena Williams and she's had a life time of that while playing in Europe.

My point exactly - you should fucking know better.

That's the exact same statistical blindness Keith is showing when he says that listeners wrote him that they lost weight and he knows what to eat and that's the proof that everybody who fails at dieting is a weakling.

To me, this debate over diet is entirely a class discussion, which then bleeds into white privilege.

Of course lower class Americans are comprised of a lot of visible minorities. But it is by far not ONLY non-whites. So to make the connection to white privilege isn't entirely wrong, but it's an extra step -- a step that completely eliminates the poor white people who also can't afford healthy food and may not have the nutritional education they deserve.

I think that's why some people have an issue with Chemda simply labelling this a race issue. It's not. To call it one undermines that actual problem here, which is totally counterproductive to improving people's eating habits or at least giving them the financial means to improve their diets themselves.

Including race in the discussion does not erase white people. No one said "only non-whites" in any of the threads or on the show.

Push back on including race in talks about socioeconomic status is common but can be harmful to change.

If we solve poverty for the most disenfranchised among us then we solve it for us all.

If we get to the point where poor trans brown/black disabled fat people don't have to worry about health disparity. Then we'll know we've solved the problem.

No one will forget about white people. Most research on poverty is on poor white people. Poor white people are the focus of every election. Poor white people will benefit from whatever solutions come.

But if we focus only on poor white people. Once they get what they need, everyone else will be ignored/forgotten.

Think of affirmative action as an example. It was created because of education disparities in black neighborhoods. Because black students weren't being prepared for entrance exams as well as white students. Turns out the main benefactor of affirmative action are white women.

I voted Keith would stay sober...

More than anything because deep down he wants to prove people wrong & how easy it is for him to be sober....

So true. My fiancé is Nigerian and I have a lot of island friends and that is very true in those places. Because most everyone is black. The next separation is class. The haves and the have nots. Sooooo bringing this back to the original gripe in those situations class and all the perks that come with it would allow for an education in what you should and shouldn’t eat to be healthy.

I can't stand when the privilege talk comes up with people and they say 'but i had it hard too.' Ari Shaffir and one of his guests recently were complaining that they didn't get where they are in comedy because of white privilege, it was because they worked so hard. It's got nothing to do with how hard your life was. It's about what is your life like being white compared to if you weren't? They think they had it hard? Well it would have been harder if you weren't a white male. Simple. Shut up.

I find the part where Keith thinks he just somehow absorbed the right info and worked it all out and he would have anyway no matter where he was thing to be so ridiculous. One of the best way to change someones opinion is to give them one on one time with someone who has had a personal experience (look at the politicians who only change their mind about gay rights when someone in their family comes out) which Keith has been doing 5 days a week for 12 years. If you don't think that is the MAIN reason you have changed you are kidding yourself. I have never enjoyed listening to any KATG episodes before show 700 as you are such a different person it sounds like a different podcast to me.

That is a good point. All those nutrition experts we’ve gotten lessons from on this show...

Having a small garden of herbs and vegetables is a great idea. Not everyone has the knowledge and patience to wait months for a carrot and spend the time and money growing them. Water cost $ and you have to keep away pests and weeds. It sounds like a great idea but the pay off is longer term then someone who didn't eat yesterday is usually willing to consider. Also, here in Michigan this doesn't work all year round and come spring it has to be restarted. I know my mother had a garden but when she died I didn't have the knowledge or the willpower to restart it after winter.

A lot of us are worried about these people and want to find solutions that will work for them.

I think part of the problem here in the US is that people think they deserve things. 'What because I'm poor I don't deserve a Twinkie, I should buy carrot seeds instead and spend my free time farming for food." I know I have these kinds of thoughts from time to time (but from a much more privileged position). I know a few people who took money out of a retirement fund to by a TV. Being short sited is not a class or race division that's for sure. I'm not sure what my point is now except, that a culture of consumption leaves the poor feeling disenfranchised and helps keep them poor by promoting consumption of goods over healthy living and a fat savings account. This reinforces the poverty trap. Add expensive upper education that leaves people with massive debt, no guarantee of a career, and a culture that has promoted the need for university degree's and put down trade skills and hard work in a factory as low class. Add racism, bigotry, Jim Crow, redlining, systematic criminalization of minorities through anti-drug propaganda, things like the Tuskegee Syphilis Study and any number of other horrible policies and practices and it is not easy to resolve any problem here in the USA. Many people don't trust doctors and the medical community and will often mention the Tuskegee study. But I guess it's "Time to make America Great Again", so now we have to start all over.

I think when it comes to poor people buying things for instant gratification it is a combination of "poor people don't have time for investments. They have to eat today" and mental health.

If you've been working hard all week, barely staying above water on your bills. And it comes down to your last $50 and you have to choose between using it all to pay your phone bill or coming up short to buy a Reeses cup in order to feel some joy today. Most people would buy the reeses cup and send a partial payment for the phone bill.

Is it the "smart" or "best" decision. Idk. It depends on how much the person really needed to feel that joy.