2811: In the Pants

[astrokahn]

Originally Posted by Archimedes_Screw

No knife but a big box of condoms. We were both virgins. And I was a dumbfuck. Still am sometimes.

Oh my god lol. You open the picnic basket and it's just full of condoms hahha

[Bucho]

Jessie scored aces babillion for her performance on this episode. Easily a Top 5 KATG guest for me right now.

[Archimedes_Screw]

Originally Posted by astrokahn

Oh my god lol. You open the picnic basket and it's just full of condoms hahha

Yes. Lol

[CherryLavender]

How is this whole antiquated shit about girls/women being taught to be quiet still going on? My grandmother was so adamant about it while I was growing up that I started walking on my toes. I STILL catch myself doing that to this day.

Come on Indra Nooyi (Doritos CEO)! Use your position for something other than this BS.

[Amravanti]

The fact that Chemda is acting like men being expected to pay for the first date is anything but an adherence to archaic gender roles is surprising. The argument that women bear more emotional burden in a relationship or a first date conversation (I think she said this on the Black Panther episode) is... not true? And not really relevant. It just sounds like she's trying to excuse the behaviour.

I think it's fine to want what you want from a relationship as an individual, but sometimes those wants are informed by gender roles and we have to acknowledge that, and people balk at gender roles when they are placed on women without realizing that both sides are inextricable. People are trying to have it both ways. Women deserve to paid equally but men should pay for the first date? It's a little hypocritical, considering those things are historically related - men were expected to pay for dates because men were breadwinners and women rarely had the means.

Again, no shade to anyone who likes that individually, but it is a symptom of the idea that men and women should behave a certain way because of their genders, and it's really something we should be pushing back against. Yap yap yap. I may have gone on too long on this. Just trying to be fair.

[lizsquiz]

I arrived for a date at a bar and the guy had already opened a tab and started drinking.
When I ordered, I had my credit card in my hand and was ready to open my own tab. The guy basically shouted at me that he had it and he was old-fashioned like that so I put it away.
One drink turns into three plus food. Generally a good sign, I'd assume. The check comes. I get my wallet out again. He insists again on paying. After what happened earlier, and given the good time I thought we had, I put it away without much of a fight, kind of also assuming I'll see him again and we can be more equal on date number 2. Never hear from him again. Am I inappropriate?

Hi, I'm bad at dating.

[Amravanti]

I think you're fine.

The fact that you're willing to pay your half and offer it (esp. if genuine) is a good instinct, I think. And one date, especially if you were the one invited, isn't like, indicative of any kind of problem.

But if you're on 3-5 dates and he still refuses to let you pay for anything, that tends to be a sign of the kind of relationship he expects. One where he 'takes care' of you. Which is fine for some people (as individuals), but not fine as a role one expects of a specific gender.

imo if someone insists, I don't think it's your job to fight them tooth and nail. But many guys assume (and sometimes rightly) that if they don't pay, their date won't think of them as a gentleman (or as Jesse Jolles says, that she'll 'close down'), so there's this weird game that gets played sometimes of a man insisting he'll pay because he has to, and a woman having to insist/convince him that she really is okay to pay for her share. And the sum tends to end up that the man gets his way, and he pays 100% more than he has to on every first date needlessly, which he usually doesn't really want to do. It's dumb, but it's accepted as the price of admission. So I just try to get rid of dumb game and just pay 50/50 no matter what. I don't know if I'm overgendering everything or not, but I know it's weird to expect someone to pay for my meals when I have my own job and am an adult.

[Mermaid]

It rubs me the wrong way when gender roles are made into an all or nothing situation.

You can choose to adhere to some and reject others. And neither choice forfeits your right to be treated as an equal human being.

If you don't want to pay for dates then don't pay for dates. That is your choice. Yeah, less women are going to be willing to date you but you don't like those women anyway.

Just like if I decided I don't like doing something thing that is expected of women like wearing feminine clothing, my dating prospects will be less. But that shouldn't be a problem for me cause I wouldn't want to date someone who had expectations for me that I'm unwilling to adhere to.

Don't do things you don't like doing. I know it's easier said than done but it'll save you a lot of wasted time with people who only like the person you are pretending to be.

I know these choices don't develop in a vacuum. But I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer.

[Mermaid]

Men who insist on paying for dates are not all old school "women need to be taken care of" 1950s types. Some people just like paying for things. I have women friends who are like this.

Also, some are more specific in their thinking not "women need to be taken care of" but "I really like this person and want to take care of them". Not in a "she's gonna have to stay home and be barefoot and pregnant" but in a "I really want to treat her to nice things and see her happy" kinda way.

Ish isn't black and white.

It also hasn't escaped me that this is a "white feminism" issue.

A black man paying for my date as never had an undertone of "because you can't do it by yourself and you need my help"...because that would just be dumb given the history. Chivalry has never been a real option when neither one of us has the opportunity to make enough to "take care" of the other. Being considered weak, fragile, delicate has never been my reality. Hell when someone does consider I might not be able to do something on my own, it's a blessing to get a break. Not a chance for me to go on a feminist rant about being able to do it myself.

[Mermaid]

But I support white women's fight to get taken off the pedestal they've been force on or whatever.

I just can't relate.