2923: The Case for Christ w/ Kyle Thompson

[lotep]

Great to hear from Kyle again. I am curious as to what the KATG gay community thinks of the Bathroom Sex = pedophilia argument. I know past guests have talked about their bathroom/park trysts including such KATG stalwarts as Kevin Allison and Danny Hatch so are we saying they're pedophiles as well? Does having sex with someone who looks like an adult and is seeking anon consensual sex make that person a pedophile even if they're not attracted to underage looking people and have no idea? Just curious as to people's thoughts on this.

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[Blitzgal]

I have yet to hear a convincing evolutionary argument for altruism

You really don't? Humans live in societies, and generally speaking, we do not tend to do very well when we're alone. To be part of a society with a group of others, various behaviors are adapted over time that help us stay a member of the group without being shunned, ostracized, or kicked out. Because being shunned leads to being alone which leads to a lesser rate of survival - and obviously, a lesser rate of reproduction because you need other people to make babies and pass on your genes. The Golden Rule exists because generally speaking, if you're a total dick, people don't want to hang out with you as much and that sucks. There are obviously exceptions to the rule, and some people who are terrible end up doing just fine or even end up in positions of authority. Humans also have a habit of being so invested in the group and not being alone that we tend to be followers, which can be taken advantage of by shit people.

But it isn't much of a leap to say that because we live in groups where cooperation helps, humans tend to cooperate. To me, it's more of a leap to think that we cooperate and help each other not because of the immediate benefits we see here in the physical world, but for the promise of unknown and unverified spiritual benefits after we die.

[Hera]

"Virtually all New Testament scholars and Near East historians, applying the standard criteria of historical investigation, find that the historicity of Jesus is effectively certain." (Historicity of Jesus on Wikipedia)

In other words, Yes, there was a historical Jesus. During his time tho there were lots of preachers claiming to do miracles tho so for the most part, no one thought that Jesus was a big deal who should be recorded in history (except Herodotus)

[SpareBen]

You ask why I brought up Jesus and God being one - because your meme ending this episode was premised on Jesus being God and mocking him for killing himself.

Re "he absolutely did" say he was God, show me. Later in the book of John, from where "the Father I are one" is taken, Jesus says "I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one." It doesn't mean they're the same person.

Jesus calls out to his father, hears his father's voice, is apparently dead for 3 days. They're not the same person.

re Josephus, ok, I'll take Chemda's point - I am not an archaeologist. Why talk about Buddha as if he's a historical figure then?

[QUOTE=Keith;870294]None of this will register.

SpareBen was just shown that Jesus DID say he was God. But I guarantee this will be ignored, and he’ll still use his argument to people who want to deny Christ, as if it somehow proves his existence anyway. ]

Not ignored, argued against.

Originally Posted by Keith

It’s interesting you happened to be raised with this. What a COOINCIDENCE. But then realizing how ridiculous it is if the entire bible is true, it’s like you need to find a way to meet in the middle.

“Ok, I won’t believe in God in a cloud, but we all know at least Jesus was true...”

Don’t say you’re unsure, Ben. You’re VERY sure.

Chemda asks that I entertain the alternatives. I spent years as an atheist. I read Sam Harris & Richard Dawkins. Then I read other stuff.

Regarding coincidence, if someone believes in God, it's not a stretch to believe we're placed somewhere we get information and choose what to do with that information. You chose one way, I choose another.

Regarding the latest priest scandal, Jesus also said "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits."

My "way to meet in the middle" has been to avoid organized religion because they cause a lot of pain, to read beyond the accepted Christian thinkers. Dismissing this as stupid or as a blind need to follow parental teaching is disingenuous.

Thank you for giving me a reason to state my beliefs. Yes, it has made me more sure.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by SpareBen

Jesus calls out to his father, hears his father's voice, is apparently dead for 3 days. They're not the same person.

then who in tarnation is the Holy Ghost? if two of the trinity are separate and not One, who the double eff is the apparition?

[lizsquiz]

Originally Posted by SpareBen

You ask why I brought up Jesus and God being one - because your meme ending this episode was premised on Jesus being God and mocking him for killing himself.

Re "he absolutely did" say he was God, show me.

https://bible.org/question/does-jesu...-just-infer-it

https://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/...as-god-faq.htm

[SpareBen]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

then who in tarnation is the Holy Ghost? if two of the trinity are separate and not One, who the double eff is the apparition?

In brief, the person-hood of the spirit is a made up thing - it is God's power. Some could interpret it as a piece of the divine in each of us. Jesus described it as a comforter. "Holy Ghost" has never meant an apparition to my knowledge. More here if you like.

[SpareBen]

Originally Posted by lizsquiz

https://bible.org/question/does-jesu...-just-infer-it

https://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/...as-god-faq.htm

I asked Keith to show me where Jesus said he was God, you submit a list of various things which are not that. Because that didn't happen.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by SpareBen

I asked Keith to show me where Jesus said he was God, you submit a list of various things which are not that. Because that didn't happen.

This guy.

Good talk.

[lizsquiz]

Originally Posted by SpareBen

I asked Keith to show me where Jesus said he was God, you submit a list of various things which are not that. Because that didn't happen.

I just referenced bible.org and allaboutjesuschrist.org. I'm not sure what your argument is. It seems to be one of semantics.

Since you don't like those sources, how about this:

So did Jesus say He was God? Not in the way you might have expected him to. But as Dr. Michael Kruger says, “We should not confuse the directness of a claim with the existence of a claim.” The historical evidence shows that Jesus actually claimed to share in the identity of the God of Israel.

Indeed, Jesus didn’t have to say the words “I am God,” in order to claim to be divine. But why is this a problem? Look, I don’t have to say the exact words, “I am married” to indicate that I’m married. I can tell you, “I’m her husband,” or “this is my wife,” or “it’s our 16th wedding anniversary.” The question is, what did the people who were actually a part of conversation think about what Jesus said?