3522: Vessel for Love - Part 3

[rodimusprime]

What is it about Will Smith smacking Chris Rock that is a "Blacks only" thing Mermaid? I'm trying to follow but don't see how them doing that at the Oscars would reasonably be seen as something white people shouldn't be able to comment on.

[Mermaid]

Originally Posted by rodimusprime

What is it about Will Smith smacking Chris Rock that is a "Blacks only" thing Mermaid? I'm trying to follow but don't see how them doing that at the Oscars would reasonably be seen as something white people shouldn't be able to comment on.

I never made the "blacks only" argument. Cause like you said, it happened in front of everyone so everyone is gonna talk about it.

But I absolutely understand *why* a lot of black people feel that way.

Cause there is a level of nuance, empathy and humanity that was missing from these episodes that were present in other podcasts that talked about it that ultimately agree with Keith and Chemda.

For example "the war report" with Shalewa and Gastor, "the daily zeitgeist", and "the read"

The missing nuance is what is irksome to me personally and the insistence that there *isn't* nuance at all. Like of course these two nonblack people aren't going to have the range. But to get angry and offended at a listener for pointing out they don't have the range and should probably bring in someone who does? Ridiculous tbh.

Cause that is the correct answer when you arent a part of a community. And they know that.

[Mermaid]

And unintentionally or not there are some racial undertones to how people choose to talk about Will Smith and Jada after this incident.

There is an "make an example out of him" tone.

So whether we agree on the slap or not, I absolutely disagree with the characterizations of these two people cause they are dripping with racialized language.

[rodimusprime]

The only issue is the email telling them it's a Black only discussion was a bit pointed. Of course it would lead to them feeling defensive. We knew Keith and Chemda weren't Black before we even pressed play on the episode so that letter expecting them to sit this one out felt ridiculous to me. Even with the trans-swimmer last week they didn't sit the conversation out. And Keith had a pretty strong perspective even if others disagreed.

I totally get disagreeing I think my only issue is the idea that this conversation is somehow more special than other topics they hit on. It's a huge pop culture event and to me it's a fool's errand to expect anyone that's not Black to totally understand how we would feel about it. Hell, a lot of Black people been disagreeing all week long.

[nordcharonmir]

The letter covered on this show is the same reasoning extolled here (on the forums and by the show's guests and to a lesser extent the hosts but the hosts seem to be moving in the right direction) around identity politics. The letter writer just thought further into it than others have and when seeing all the issues and contradictions leaned further into the ideology (instead of seeing the issues and questioning it) to the point of swallowing whole the bait of changing history to fit their ideology of today. I see this as a demonstration of the mass formation psychosis description, formulated first in the 19th century then fleshed out better after Socialist Countries exemplified the concepts, with a small % actually buying into the ideas espoused by the ideological architects while most of population falls in the % that just goes along because it is easier than opposing it and with the short term view of "who does it hurt" without considering the long term ramifications. Just for clarification on this theory the architects who design the narratives usually know full well that they are at least untruths if not worse but they believe the use these false narratives (means) will be justified in the (ends) Utopia they will control.

If you play the letter writer's point out you get to her advocating for apartheid at best and genocide at worst (which has been on multiple times exposed as the end goal for the narratives she buys into's ultimate goal but let's just say apartheid to give her the benefit of the ignorance doubt).

As crazy as this letter sounds to you guys is as crazy as all identity politics sounds to people who have spent the effort to think it all the way through.

Chemda's equating lil WIllie's actions to Snowflake behavior...chef's kiss. Excellent!
Chemda's response to her medical diagnoses...chef's kiss. Excellent! Strength and courage are the proper response to properly orient yourself.

[rodimusprime]

TLDR: The letter basically said "stop talking about this" and I think pretty much any podcaster would be feel defensive when told that. I don't think it's surprising or insulting that they defended their right to have a conversation.

[Mermaid]

Sure, everyone gets defensive. Especially when you talk about their craft.

It *is* surprising how tone death the defense was tho. Like the hair thing. And the black friends thing. The fact that they didn't acknowledge their lack of knowledge. They chose to pretend that they have all the information they need instead. Even denied saying things they actually did say. (I was tempted to go get timestamps for receipts, cause they are there and i heard it too. That person isnt crazy like they tried to paint them)

It didn't exactly prove their point at all.

[nordcharonmir]

Originally Posted by Mermaid

And unintentionally or not there are some racial undertones to how people choose to talk about Will Smith and Jada after this incident.

There is an "make an example out of him" tone.

So whether we agree on the slap or not, I absolutely disagree with the characterizations of these two people cause they are dripping with racialized language.

Is it your position that if the same incident had happened among non-black people the fall out would be somehow lesser?

Hypothetically, If Ricky Gervais had mad a joke about Angelina Jole not having boobs (a FAR MORE serious medical issue) and Brad Pitt walked on stage struck him, turned and retreated to his seat to cry, yell and quiver about it do you think people would discuss it and want to have seen Pitt removed from the event and not celebrated?

Please advise. Sneak peak if your answer isn't that it would be treated the same or worse you are looney tunes.

[nordcharonmir]

Originally Posted by Mermaid

Sure, everyone gets defensive. Especially when you talk about their craft.

It *is* surprising how tone death the defense was tho. Like the hair thing. And the black friends thing. The fact that they didn't acknowledge their lack of knowledge. They chose to pretend that they have all the information they need instead. Even denied saying things they actually did say. (I was tempted to go get timestamps for receipts, cause they are there and i heard it too. That person isnt crazy like they tried to paint them)

It didn't exactly prove their point at all.

The person isn't crazy just incredibly wrong. Chemda and Keith are right. Mermaid think through the ramification of separating all the media and conversation etc base solely on race...see where that takes you.

[rodimusprime]

Originally Posted by Mermaid

Sure, everyone gets defensive. Especially when you talk about their craft.

It *is* surprising how tone death the defense was tho. Like the hair thing. And the black friends thing. The fact that they didn't acknowledge their lack of knowledge. They chose to pretend that they have all the information they need instead. Even denied saying things they actually did say. (I was tempted to go get timestamps for receipts, cause they are there and i heard it too. That person isnt crazy like they tried to paint them)

It didn't exactly prove their point at all.

Yeah I guess I didn’t find it surprising. Like I said even Black people gonna disagree on this one.