3522: Vessel for Love - Part 3

[rodimusprime]

Originally Posted by Mermaid

Everyone gets it with women. Different women are offended by different things and they likely have a good reason for it.

Just cause the women/friends you ask are not offended by something doesn't mean that women who are don't have a point and shouldn't be considered.

And no one gets to decided what is the absolute right answer. Especially people who aren't women.

Cause people who aren't women do not have the lived experiences to speak with authority in any direction.

I don't even think this holds up. People discuss women's issues all the time. I don't think there is any magical issue where only the group it effects discusses it and everyone sits it out.

[Apia resurrected]

Originally Posted by rodimusprime

I don't even think this holds up. People discuss women's issues all the time. I don't think there is any magical issue where only the group it effects discusses it and everyone sits it out.

100%.
I have never seen such a magical issue in my life.

[Mermaid]

Originally Posted by rodimusprime

I don't even think this holds up. People discuss women's issues all the time. I don't think there is any magical issue where only the group it effects discusses it and everyone sits it out.

I never made that argument. You keep confusing me for the letter writer.

My point is that it's generally accepted that women's issues are nuanced and a lot of women disagree. There isn't just one right answer.

And that just because the women that *you* know all believe one thing and its the thing you happened to also agree with, that doesn't mean the the women who disagree aren't saying something worthwhile and important and worth listening to.

[Mermaid]

Originally Posted by lizzy1e

Some of this discussion makes the US sound so insanely divided to an outsider... How does anyone even function? How do people even see each other as human and just have a normal discussion or debate? How are people not terrified to actually look at or learn about each other's cultures?

Seriously...

What about this conversation is terrifying?

What makes this not a normal discussion or debate?

[rodimusprime]

Originally Posted by Mermaid

I never made that argument. You keep confusing me for the letter writer.

My point is that it's generally accepted that women's issues are nuanced and a lot of women disagree. There isn't just one right answer.

And that just because the women that *you* know all believe one thing and its the thing you happened to also agree with, that doesn't mean the the women who disagree aren't saying something worthwhile and important and worth listening to.

I’m not confusing you with the letter writer. You keep saying you’re not the letter writer. I know that. But you also said you thought the letter made a good point. The letter said they should sit this conversation out.

[Mermaid]

It's only terrifying if you still have the mindset of people either being "racist" or "not racist".

When in reality we are all raised in a culture that is deeply racist therefore we all have to actively unlearn all the fucked up things we were taught.

It's obviously easier to unlearn the things that are about you personally. Cause you have the daily lived experience to go off of.

But if an Asian person told me something I said was racist or steeped in racist thinking, I'm simply going to take that as valuable information. And something I need to look into. It's not a personal attack on my being. Being called out is not the offense here. I was literally out here spreading white supremacy without knowing it. That is the offense.

And honestly that shows a level of trust that person has in me. Cause literally no one has the time to call out every instance of racism they experience on a day-to-day basis. People usually save that energy for someone they think is worth having the conversation with. That is somewhat of an honor to be that important to someone. (Someone you know personally who is willing to call you out)

[Even if the Asian community as a whole doesn't agree on it. It doesn't matter. No whole community agrees on anything. It's always nuanced.]

Discussions like this is literally why the term "white fragility" exists.

The racism is the offense. Not the call out.

[rodimusprime]

And what if the Asian person is wrong?

[Mermaid]

Originally Posted by rodimusprime

I’m not confusing you with the letter writer. You keep saying you’re not the letter writer. I know that. But you also said you thought the letter made a good point. The letter said they should sit this conversation out.

It also said a whole bunch of stuff to support their opinion for why they think KATG should sit this conversation out.

***Their supportive evidence is what I agree with.*** The writer noticed a pattern and grew frustrated. I understand cause I noticed the pattern also.

Hence my first post in this thread listing some of my own supportive evidence.

[rodimusprime]

Ah okay. Cool! I get it now.

[Mermaid]

Originally Posted by rodimusprime

And what if the Asian person is wrong?

I guess it depends on the situation but I'm never going to feel comfortable telling an Asian person that I know enough about their lives to completely block out their own opinions on it.

Especially in a situation like the slap where I've seen most people agree on the "right" answer but still hold space for nuance.

Who am I to yell a flippant "you're wrong!" and refuse to listen any further?