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View Poll Results: Are you fine with going to a public event (party, movies, restaurant) by yourself?
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Old 05-29-2022, 12:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jerlyn View Post
Not sure if you can correlate that without data. There are always mass shootings, we just aren't privy to all of them, which is the unfortunate thing about this country. There have been mass shootings, suicides, and violence prior to lockdown. The problem is still guns.

Here's a chart from 2021. https://time.com/4965022/deadliest-m...ng-us-history/

Certainly seems like the numbers have always been high prior to 2020.
I'm not saying lockdowns were or are the singular cause. I'm saying to the original point that lockdowns don't help the underlying causes, like mental health in the forms of depression, suicidal idealization, isolation, radicalization etc. that appear to feed at least 2 of the 3 primary categories of mass shooting we are discussing.

The gang and pure criminality mass shootings being excluded in this analysis b/c we seem to have a clear understanding of those causes but choose to "let the animals wipe themselves out" instead of dealing with that problem.

For your point about data...we have the data. Suicide rate in USA is highest it has been since WWII. Mass shootings (non-gang related) are way up. You'll see over the years how they move pretty much in tandem, with some noise coming from some social factors but a pretty tight correlation still since about 1980. There is something that profoundly changes things from just suicides prior to the end of the 70s and the mass killing as part of a suicide that appears to begin in the 80s. I don't know what it is but this appears to be a pivotal moment we need to understand better. A note on data clarity here - this is focused on the non-gang mass shootings which the largest category of those come from these suicidal attacks (Texas), followed by a smaller apportionment that appear to be ideological (Buffalo), and lastly the smallest factor being purely psychotic breaks (columbine Eric Harris not Dylan).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apia resurrected View Post
The whole World had lockdowns but somehow the amount of shootings- only.in the US.
Wonder what the difference is...wonder...
This is true Apia, there is something profoundly different about the USA, especially since the start of the 80s. What do you think it is? P.S. there have been a bunch of bombings, mass knife murders, acid attacks, attempted mass shootings, etc. all over the world coming out of the lockdowns but I get your point that the absolute number in the news from the USA seems oddly high.


Assume no one has heard anything about this since it doesn't fit the current narrative:

https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a...en-i-falkoping
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Old 05-29-2022, 02:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Suicide rate in USA is highest it has been since WWII.
Just how much do you post on the internet?
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Old 05-31-2022, 05:18 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Kevin Spacey’s robbery at a well known gay cottaging spot had more holes than Swiss cheese in it at the time.

I think he must have had an injunction at the time, not sure that story fooled anyone in the UK.

In one of the last pods you mentioned the cops had worse body armour than the shooter so maybe it’s a new health and safety thing for the cops. As a parent I wouldn’t knowingly let my son buy a gun, so many points when an intervention could take place, it goes back to my previous point, life needs to be made more valuable than the money made from selling guns.

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Old 05-31-2022, 09:00 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Old 05-31-2022, 08:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nordcharonmir View Post
[Question] [Question] [Question]
It's not hard finding information regarding the questions you ask. For example, https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/03/trends-suicide discusses trends and some likely causes but also suggests caution when trying to determine "prediction factors." The correlation most frequently found is the connection between living circumstances: they improve and numbers go down, they declined and the numbers go up. The part for me was when it said this:

"Meanwhile, people who are struggling often fail to receive interventions that could save their lives. “There is a lack of accessible, affordable, effective mental health care. And the health-care system hasn’t been designed with suicide risk in mind,” Moutier says."

Hmm back to that old thing. We like to talk about mental health and its role in all sorts of situations but rarely do anything to make mental healthcare available to people. Also of note is occurrence of a firearm in successful suicide completions.

And I can see something that happened around the 80s: neoliberalism or the increasing popularity of certain types of public and private ideologies.

Last edited by vezione; 05-31-2022 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 06-01-2022, 12:08 AM   #17 (permalink)
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BTW

I was talking to my mum last night about the number of suicides (and mental health crisis) in my kids age group and her solution was to make it illegal again, because obviously suicidal people are more scared of the law than dying.

Boomer take, now it’s no longer illegal kids aren’t scared of doing it,
with that age group being the majority who turn out to vote it’s no wonder the county is in such a mess.
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Old 06-01-2022, 08:28 AM   #18 (permalink)
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...with that age group being the majority who turn out to vote it’s no wonder the county is in such a mess...
Isn't that an issue that solves itself in the long-run? 😆🤷🏻

Oooo I just looked at data from the CDC and the numbers between males and females is interesting with older men generating doing it more while women seem to be distributed normally like I would expect to see across both - the most grouping around late 20s-60s. They don't mention how they account for female/male but I'm sure that binary will hang around a while in comparisons.

Last edited by vezione; 06-01-2022 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 06-01-2022, 01:31 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by vezione View Post
It's not hard finding information regarding the questions you ask. For example, https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/03/trends-suicide discusses trends and some likely causes but also suggests caution when trying to determine "prediction factors." The correlation most frequently found is the connection between living circumstances: they improve and numbers go down, they declined and the numbers go up. The part for me was when it said this:

"Meanwhile, people who are struggling often fail to receive interventions that could save their lives. “There is a lack of accessible, affordable, effective mental health care. And the health-care system hasn’t been designed with suicide risk in mind,” Moutier says."

Hmm back to that old thing. We like to talk about mental health and its role in all sorts of situations but rarely do anything to make mental healthcare available to people. Also of note is occurrence of a firearm in successful suicide completions.

And I can see something that happened around the 80s: neoliberalism or the increasing popularity of certain types of public and private ideologies.
So this analysis you linked to is time constrained and is pushing a social agenda (including the quote you pulled in this thread). The source data without commentary will be more valuable to you.

Your point on healthcare solutions, see my reply on the other thread. For suicide success with firearms, now you're getting with the program. Firearms are statistically suicide tools. Check out the "gun violence" stats that are always thrown around by media and see how much of that is suicide. So if we can inforce the laws about suicidal people can't posses guns and get better healthcare to the people who actually need it we may actually get somewhere.

Interesting pull on the neoliberal timing. I honestly don't know what the cause is. There was a lot of psycho pharma stuff around then, mass media stuff, economic and crime issues. I'm still trying to deep dive some trend data to see if we can pull back the layers of the onion a bit to understand it more.

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Originally Posted by LoopyLou79 View Post
BTW

I was talking to my mum last night about the number of suicides (and mental health crisis) in my kids age group and her solution was to make it illegal again, because obviously suicidal people are more scared of the law than dying.

Boomer take, now it’s no longer illegal kids aren’t scared of doing it,
Your mum has the same idea that people who want to make guns illegal to shoot people with, even though it's already illegal. If it was just more illegal it wouldn't happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vezione View Post
Oooo I just looked at data from the CDC and the numbers between males and females is interesting with older men generating doing it more while women seem to be distributed normally like I would expect to see across both - the most grouping around late 20s-60s.
Look at the race, age, sex and see if we see any correlations with specifically the public suicide mold of shooters. The age is trending down. Before it was kinda kicked off at the age where schizophrenia starts in boys and there was some interesting ideas around this but since some of the moves in and around COVID domestic incarcerations things have skewed younger.
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Old 06-01-2022, 07:13 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nordcharonmir View Post
So this analysis you linked to is time constrained and is pushing a social agenda (including the quote you pulled in this thread). The source data without commentary will be more valuable to you.

Your point on healthcare solutions, see my reply on the other thread. For suicide success with firearms, now you're getting with the program. Firearms are statistically suicide tools. Check out the "gun violence" stats that are always thrown around by media and see how much of that is suicide. So if we can inforce the laws about suicidal people can't posses guns and get better healthcare to the people who actually need it we may actually get somewhere.

Interesting pull on the neoliberal timing. I honestly don't know what the cause is. There was a lot of psycho pharma stuff around then, mass media stuff, economic and crime issues. I'm still trying to deep dive some trend data to see if we can pull back the layers of the onion a bit to understand it more.



Your mum has the same idea that people who want to make guns illegal to shoot people with, even though it's already illegal. If it was just more illegal it wouldn't happen.



Look at the race, age, sex and see if we see any correlations with specifically the public suicide mold of shooters. The age is trending down. Before it was kinda kicked off at the age where schizophrenia starts in boys and there was some interesting ideas around this but since some of the moves in and around COVID domestic incarcerations things have skewed younger.
When are we gonna hear about why you made fake accounts to argue with yourself?
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