528: Movie Monday

[Deadfork2]

i like the new website. where is Max on the past guest list? I think he was overlooked.

[bithead]

I admire your knowledge, Lura. But the complexities you write about is one of the things that turned me off of religion in the first place. "Just be" - that's what I say.

Originally Posted by Lura

I was really interested to hear Keith's views on "Deliver us from Evil". The conversation about that brought out some areas that I wanted to address. I am NOT trying to convert anyone, just clear up some things.

My credentials: Ten years ago I felt similar to what Keith feels now about religion; five years ago I was a Christian who thought the Catholic Church was totally screwed up. Four years ago my best friend died a slow, horrible death and I had to start from scratch spiritually. After a lot of study, I’m now a Catholic who willingly admits that there are some fucked up things about how stuff happens in the church. I’m as disgusted with at the priests who raped children as any of you are, plus, I’m disgusted that they used MY church to hide in and with the bishops who let them.

Forgiveness: Many bishops wrongly decided that forgiveness meant no punishment for these priests but that’s not the real church teaching. Forgiveness does not eliminate the need for punishment; after all that’s what the Catholic idea of purgatory is all about. If a confessor does not believe you are really sorry, he can refuse to absolve you, and he can strongly advise you to make reparation. What these bishops should have done is move the priests to jobs where they would have no contact with the public, much less more children, and advise the priests to consider confessing to the police (by church law, the confessor can not tell the police or force the confessee to do so).

Protestants vs. Catholics: Having been both Protestant and Catholic, I can vouch that Chemda is right that Catholic is seen as less OK to the general public. Lots of evangelicals and people who don’t believe in anything as such don’t even think Catholics are really Christian. As far as other Christians flocking to join if the Pope called for a religious war, don’t count on it. Most non-Catholic Christians would love to see the Pope fall and lots consider him the antichrist, and they think the Catholic church is the “Whore of Babylon” from Revelations.

Vatican army: The Swiss Guard is a group of less than 150 men who have gone through basic training with the Swiss military. They are more like a bodyguard force than a military unit.

Pray at home: The reason that Keith’s brother and sister can’t just pray at home is because as Catholics they believe that they need the Eucharist (communion). Unless you are a priest who has mass in his own basement by himself, that means you have to go to church for it.

Immunity from prosecution: The Pope is considered a head of state and as such automatically has the same immunity as the Queen or Prime Minister of England.

The book of Paul: There is no book of Paul in the bible. I think Matt was referring to “You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church”, which is in the gospel of Matthew. Or he could have meant 1st Corinthians which mentions the role of women. I don’t know of any real controversy about the authenticity of either of these.

Robes: Just out of curiosity, Chemda, what’s your issue with robes? “This weird hierarchy with the fucking robes that they wear!” (57 min 25 sec into the show.) Do you think judges' robes are wierd, too?

[Aristoprat]

Originally Posted by Lura

I’m as disgusted with at the priests who raped children as any of you are, plus, I’m disgusted that they used MY church to hide in and with the bishops who let them.

I feel that the biggest stain on the Roman Catholic church is that they refuse those who follow their teachings to use condoms. How many people in Africa have died from AIDS as a result of this. OK, bring on the no sex outside marraige brigade.

[strangeone]

Originally Posted by Aristoprat

I feel that the biggest stain on the Roman Catholic church is that they refuse those who follow their teachings to use condoms. How many people in Africa have died from AIDS as a result of this. OK, bring on the no sex outside marraige brigade.

This is one of the reasons why the Catholic church decided to rearrange the afterlife. Until recently unbaptised babies were sent to Purgatory, now apparently they are allowed into Heaven. I heard rumors, that the Catholic church had done this to help in converting more of the African population.

[robotparker]

Max, I am totally on board with you on the Thriller thing. I've only recently (in the past two weeks or so) sat down and actually listened to the whole thing. once I was done, the first thing that popped into my head was: "MJ, you are forgiven."

[Aristoprat]

Originally Posted by robotparker

Max, I am totally on board with you on the Thriller thing. I've only recently (in the past two weeks or so) sat down and actually listened to the whole thing. once I was done, the first thing that popped into my head was: "MJ, you are forgiven."

"MJ, take my child! Your music is so good it will outweigh his trauma!"

I can't recognise sarcasm

[Lura]

Originally Posted by strangeone

This is one of the reasons why the Catholic church decided to rearrange the afterlife. Until recently unbaptised babies were sent to Purgatory, now apparently they are allowed into Heaven. I heard rumors, that the Catholic church had done this to help in converting more of the African population.

They never taught that babies went to purgatory, it was limbo. Kind of a pleasant waiting room just outside of heaven. And it was not a doctrine, it's what's called a theological theory. But it's amazing how many Catholics, much less everyone else, don't know what the church really teaches.

[strangeone]

Originally Posted by Lura

They never taught that babies went to purgatory, it was limbo. Kind of a pleasant waiting room just outside of heaven. And it was not a doctrine, it's what's called a theological theory. But it's amazing how many Catholics, much less everyone else, don't know what the church really teaches.

Okay, the fact that I was mistaken about Purgatory and Limbo aside, I don't think I've ever heard the word theory associated with religion. Religion is always stated as fact by its believers. Evolution is a theory, Intelligent Design is a doctrine.

But I've been mistaken before.

[Lura]

Originally Posted by strangeone

Okay, the fact that I was mistaken about Purgatory and Limbo aside, I don't think I've ever heard the word theory associated with religion. Religion is always stated as fact by its believers. Evolution is a theory, Intelligent Design is a doctrine.

But I've been mistaken before.

In my opinion, anyone who confuses belief for fact is insecure in their belief or ignorant. I can tell you factually what the church teaches and what I have perceived, but whether it's true is a crap shoot.

[strangeone]

Originally Posted by Lura

In my opinion, anyone who confuses belief for fact is insecure in their belief or ignorant. I can tell you factually what the church teaches and what I have perceived, but whether it's true is a crap shoot.

This is exactly the problem though. What the church teaches could go either way, they could be right or wrong, but the information isn't taught in this manner. It is taught as fact.