735: Innocence Lost
 

"If we were in jail, your mouth would be first."

i thought the movie was obvious, but just not spelled out. the coin used by the character to open the vent, later, another open vent, missing money,and the coin left behind. the "bad guy" watching his feet for blood after a murder, later, walking out from the wife, looking at his feet for blood. the mexicans were drug dealers, i really didnt think they needed to be anything more than a stereotype, the story starts off with the narration of the MAIN character, ed tom bell, and ends with him...etc etc

but enough people couldnt follow, i suppose a movie cant be so close to real life, and things need to be spoon fed to the audience, this is the good guy, this is the bad guy, so, yeah, i do concede the coen brothers failed to please a wide audience, if that was their goal.

NCFOM - The killer is a metaphor for Violence.
 

The whole movie is a commentary on violence, each character is a different take on the nature of violence. Loved it... Violence is a force of nature just like the killer, it doesn't have an arc or an ending.

Can i just say i love the quote from this episode.

Keith: Patrice i am having your asshole!

Absolutley classic!

No County
 

I've downloaded No County a few a weeks ago, and I still haven't watched it yet. After listening to Keith talk about it I don't think I want to watch it now.

Edit: I am not saying that the show spoiled it. It just sounds like a crap movie.

If you watch it with this expectation you will probably enjoy it more. Movies are rooned for me all the time by my own expectations and hype from others. Go into the viewing thinking it's average at best and you might like it.

Maybe I was in a coma during the explanation part.

Crap movies
 

I know what you mean. I watched First Sunday before the live show started last night. I thought it would be crap at first, but it wasn't that bad.

Fucking awful movie.

On the other hand, I loved There Will Be Blood.

isn't being quirky and artsy these days, POP CULTURE?



keith stick to watching movies like MISSION IMPOSSIBLE, JAMES BOND...

I feel I should explain something. As time passed, I began to understand why people didn't like the movie/ending. I started to wonder what happened to everybody after such an abrupt ending. So here is what happened:

After the good guy dies he is buried in an oak coffin. He lies underground for years and years and years until the coffin rots and he is eaten by maggots. The maggots grow up to be flies and then die 24 hours later. The same thing happens to his wife.

The bad guy walks down the street and then turns left. Then he walks for another mile until he turns right onto Main Street. He walks into a CVS to buy some of that sticky gauze stuff to heal up his arm. Then he pays for it. He walks out of the CVS and turns right to continue down Main Street. He continues walking for a long time until he reaches a hotel where he can stay for the night. He takes off the shirt-sling and puts on the sticky gauze. He goes to bed after watching the Tonight Show. He dies because he bleeds out. He is cremated because it is cheaper for the town. The ashes are just spread on the sidewalk outside the crematorium.

After the Sheriff guy tells his dream, he eats his breakfast. Then he does chores and such around the house until lunch time. His wife makes them both a tuna fish sandwich. After lunch they both go riding horses around their property. They have a modest dinner while watching the news. Then they watch TV and go to bed. They wake up the next morning and do the same thing over again until they both die years later from a gas leak in their house. They are buried next to each other out in their field. Their bodies decompose and give nutrients to the soil so that the crops can grow better.

The money is found by some high school kids and they spend it on hookers and beer for a couple of weeks. Then they realize that they can use it to go to college. One goes to college for business. He becomes a successful owner of a small candle making company. The other goes to college to become a writer. He drops out senior year and overdoses on heroin three months later. He is buried in a cemetery and then the maggots eat him. The maggots become flies and die 24 hours later. The last kid goes to law school and opens his own firm. He starts to represent shady clients and is killed ten years later because he didn't defend a mafia goon well enough to get him out of jail. He is buried in a cemetery and then the maggots eat him. The maggots become flies and die 24 hours later.


In all seriousness, I completely understand why somebody wouldn't like the movie. I have also adjusted to the fact that Keith and I will almost never agree on movies. It's not that he is smarter than I or the other way around. It's just that we see different things in movies.

Ending Ruined
 

I hate assholes who say this because movies and books are different things and not to be compared, so I swear this is very nearly the only movie I will ever say this about, but the book is much better and you need to read it to understand what is actually going on. The movie didn't have an ending because the Coen Brothers butchered it. It wouldn't have taken that much more time to do it like in the book and have it make so much more sense. Instead they left everybody wondering, what the fuck just happened and in my opinion, ruined the whole movie.

People don't like to read, I get it. So I'm not expecting anyone to actually read it. However, if you are one of the few pretentious assholes (Spooky) who did like the movie, and I really can't understand how you would unless you really admire good foley work or whatever, and you like to read, I highly recommend the book. Its pretty short and has all of the same violence, plus I think things make a lot more sense.

On the other hand, you have to do one thing first (read the book or see the movie) and I'm not really sure that you can do both without the first really affecting your enjoyment of the second.

I'm honestly okay with NCFOM. I am an amateur screenwriter and I evaluated this screenplay for a project I had to do. The actual screenplay really is fantastic. It's very well written. However, I think the Cohen Brothers really good have made things a lot more clear in their screenshots. A lot of things were left out in the screenplay that could have quite possibly made this film a lot easier to understand.

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck you and welcome to the forums!

I liked NCFOM :)

I liked it, however now I feel like I need to read the book to fill in the holes. And I did have to read the Wikipedia Cliffs Notes to grab some details. I was mostly confused about why Anton was so successful as such an obviously bad hitman -- how far are you gonna get in this career if you keep killing your employers and flashing around to regular Joe Schmoes who are going to be able to ID you later on? Might as well be a cueball bald dude in a flashy suit.

The Academy Awards are a sham. The only people (yes I know there's thousands of them, but listen) that vote are members of the Academy. To get chosen to be on the Academy you're nominated by other Academy members or you've won an Oscar. Either way it's inbreeding for a shit-for-brains organization. It should not be used to measure any artistic merit. You know what should be used? Public opinion. Who was the movie made for? Artists? No. It was made for the public. Therefore, the public should be able to judge these movies for what they're worth. We're all suckers for "Academy Award Nominated" movies that more often than not, suck balls.

And on to this ending stuff...

I thought 3:10 to Yuma had a stupid ending too, and it left a really bad taste in my mouth which made me dislike the movie a whole lot. The only good actor in that movie was the guy that place Charlie Prince. He did a great job in a ridiculous movie.

Bad endings ruin movies. It's the most important part to a story I think. One of the best/worst endings of all time was The Departed... you either were shocked at its amazingness or you hated how fucking retarded it was. I liked it, only bc I it's logically what would have followed a psychotic series of events; and even more psychotic ending.

Anyways... go fuck yourselves.

fyi: the euromillions.com comercia is cutting of Patrice in the middle of a sentence (around the mark 1:20:06)

No Desert for ol' Keith:

Fuck the Academy Awards. They're pretentious awards only voted on by pretentious people. Screw the academy and Oscar can find an uncomfortable place up Hollywood's disease ridden vagine.

Oh and Citizen Kane sucked balls. Anyone who tells you different...well...I totally fucking disagree with.

Spooky likes a movie where the serial killer gets away with it. People are surprised because...


I suspect that if the killer were the Texan and the cop was a Mexican this would be his favorite movie of all time.

Bad Movie
 

I saw the movie when it first came out with a friend of mine who was seeing it for the second time. He loved the movie but I felt it was average at best. The movie was far too long and the scenes are drawn out. If I look at my watch during a movie, the movie cannot be good. I've seen plenty of long (3 hour) movies and been entertained the entire time (Braveheart, Lord of the Rings, Gladiator, etc.). This movie was crap. Not much happens in the movie. I will say that the suspense built up in some of the scenes was great but the story line was simply drawn out. The way the movie was ended was indeed as Keith put it, a "cop out". I'm paying money for an ending to a story. Even some words at the end saying what happend would have been great. I know when a movie has great deep meaning but if most people can't find this meaning by watching the movie, it defeats the purpose of the movie. I know I'm a new poster and all that but this movie was shit and I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. One of the best movies in recent time to me was The Prestige. Great ending, great story, great acting. Fuck old country.

I'm writing this at 5.30 in the am after a playing gta4 while listening to the episode so pardon any unwieldy sentences.

I really enjoyed No Country For Old Men but I get why people don't like it. The marketing sold it as more a blockbuster thriller movie which it really isn't. I was actually surprised how closely they stuck to the book for such a widely released film. McCarthy isn't a friendly or welcoming writer – his books are dense and self-reflective, violent and bleak and tend to end with ambiguity - which hardly makes them obvious box office draws.

No Country is less concerned about the money than how these characters deal with this unstoppable force who can not be reasoned with.

The deaths of the lead characters were clear but not lingered on.

I really liked the way Chigurh looked at his boots when leaving the wife's house. Thanks to him moving his feet out of the way of the blood when he killed the other bounty hunter, we know what he's checking for and therefore the fate of that character.
We didn't need to see it and we didn't need him to say it. It's the difference between seeing someone burst into a room with a gun and blast someone sitting in a chair in the face and seeing a cartridge eject and a hand drop.

As for Llewelyn Moss, we saw the girl he was drinking with dead, we saw all the carnage around and it showed him dead.

In the end of the movie, Chigurh is hit by a car, he gets out and carries on. The last we see of the character is him walking off, he cannot be stopped.

Tommy Lee's recollection of a dream at the end is the entire movie.

Like I said, I get why you didn't like it and I'm not judging you for it, but you do seem a little too quick to judge people who do like it. Although for the record, I do immediately want to shoot anyone who can't talk about a movie without mentioning Goddard and auteur theory in the face.

Also the guy who plays Niko Bellec in GTA4 just killed his career, which is a shame because he was good.

You haters are driving me nuts. I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. You claim to have understood the movie and it's shit, yet you want it explained to you. If you want text at the end of the movie explaining what happened you did not understand the plot. Here's a newsflash. If there was text at the end of this movie if would have ruined the ending. What would be the point? The plot was absolutely clear.

Ugh, I'm going to try to stop looking at things regarding movies on this forum. Everything is always shit, and anyone who likes it is either an elitist or is retarded. Haters.

Yeah. When it comes to the internet things can either be the BEST THING EVER or the WORST PIECE OF SHIT EVER MADE. Nothing is ever just ok or even just good. It's all or nothing and it gets tiring.

I agree... the dummy didn't even think about the downloadable content (at least for the 360.) They're going to need a voice for Niko what with the new missions/storyline/etc. He could've negotiated. Hopefully he hasn't blown it.

Good point. Although I hear that's well under way, maybe it's the same contract.

Good point, although those are well underway so maybe it's the same contract.

Here he is in other stuff.

I hate how people buy into No Country is artsy. It doesn't have any depth that doesn't appeal to the common man; it's a fucking stupid movie that obscures its dumb plot with vagueness and drawn out sequences.

No Country is a movie that relies entirely on its plot to have a point, and the plot is SHIT. A movie can't have a point when the entire story is contrived and unrealistic.

People give No Country too much credit. Academy Awards doesn't mean fucking anything. How much did the Academy recognize The Good the Bad and the Ugly? And how much more does that movie make a statement about violence than the steaming pile of shit that is No country?

THANK YOU KEITH, for being the voice of reason.

Napoleon Dynamite was shit. I downloaded it and did not laugh once.

Then quit.

There's an audio interview with the voice actor here.

people just want to fit in. they form little groups of like minded idiots, and insulate themselves from free thinking or new ideas, and attack anyone that poses a risk to their mutual mental ruts. its the path of least resistance. herd mentality. those people need to go read thoreau instead of lining up for kool aid in guyana. meh.

I would just like to say that black people don’t watch BET, it’s a total myth. The only people I have ever met that watch that shit was overweight white chicks that are into black guys.

Anyway, I loved No Country, but at the same time I didn’t take anything away from it that was super deep. The only thing I really didn’t get was that Tommy Lee talking about his dream at the end.

Fuck symbolism.

I liked No Country For Old Men, but I didn't like The Wedding Singer. it put me to sleep for some reason. probably because I was on a ton of flu medication when I saw it. ergo, it might be good. but probably not.

Keith didn't like the movie because he had to spend two whole hours without drinking.

Too bad about Niko, maybe he should have thought about making some extra income the way his cousin did.

I just heard this show.. I'm not too pretentious about movies and can freely admit that for a movie like There Will Be Blood, while it interested me, I didn't totally get it.

But I thought No Country was amazing and is unquestionably my favorite movie of 07. Unlike others, though, I would never use words like 'innocence lost,' 'awe' or other vague pretentious bullshit in describing what I got out of it.

To me the movie was a simple moral tale with a message - that death isn't a bad thing, and being alive isn't necessarily good. The way Josh Brolin's character was killed spoke to this - he's supposed to be the protagonist but they totally brush over his death in what was clearly some sort of shootout that we don't even see. That's them saying 'hey, maybe death isn't such a big deal.' At least, though, he still had passion and drive in life. This is contrasted by all the old characters who are washed up, crippled, and useless, too afraid to hunt down Bardem, and even not worth killing (Bardem leaves Tommy Lee Jones alive in that room).

I think the ending totally fits with this understanding of the movie because by ending so abruptly, it was playing with the message of the movie. Instead of waiting for things to end and draw to a nice tidy bundle of a close, it just ended when we were wondering what was going to happen next. The collective WTF in the theater was their way of "killing" the movie abruptly like they did Brolin's character, instead of extending it to a peaceful, agonizing let-down of a death as is happening to all the old people in the movie. They're kind of poking fun of how movies are often so awesome, yet fall apart at the end and disappoint the audience, and applying that metaphor to human life.

Tommy Lee Jones' lil soliloquies also spelled this out pretty obviously.. the first one, where he was saying something about he'd always been waiting for something to happen in his life, yet nothing did. And the dream at the end where his dad passed him on the way to the camp, with a warm fire, meaning that his early death wasn't a bad thing, but meant that he reached peace and comfort earlier than TLJ's character.

Maybe that sounds really pretentious to some people but at least I can explain exactly what I got out of the movie and why I liked everything from the way they handled Brolin's death to the ending without being vague. I know too many people who liked this movie, but when you ask why, they have no clue, or they say "hmm, I can't explain it."

The husband overdosed on soma? Soma was the drug they all had in Brave New World...

is anyone else curious what book Chemda was talking about?

Speaking of somas, I went to Tijuana one time and there's a pharmacy called Amsterdam less than a block from the border. I bought a few somas and xanax pills. I ended up taking them that night with a few beers. I waited a over a half hour I didn't feel anything so I got mad that I got ripped off and decided to start getting drunk. I should've waited longer because the effects kicked in bout 30min later. I woke up the next morning with a tattoo.