738: You Otter Know

[hypercrypt]

Originally Posted by Blitzgal

Well, it's true that the "drug war" simply creates a dangerous black market resulting in rampant violence, death, etc. The drugpins of today make the likes of Al Capone look like teddybears. But you also can't deny that there are health risks associated with drugs, too. I started watching that Intervention show after....crap, I'm blanking on his name. Help me out, Jeremy. Anyway, after he talked about it on the show I started watching it, and drugs ruin lives. Period. The meth and heroin addicts on that show scare the crap out of me. Alcoholism is scary enough (my grandfather was one).

I totally agree and am not denying any part of it, making it illegal does not help the whole thing though. It does not make any sense to punish someone for possession though. The distribution should be regulated, just as Alcohol, medicine and additives (etc.) are, either restricted or banned. Making possession illegal only creates more problems for those that are abusing drugs though, it does not help them at all.

[Blitzgal]

Originally Posted by SkeleGirl

I'm just fucking tired of the money and effort being put out to protect and coddle addicts.
Right now there's a huge issue about safe injection sites on the West Coast and it's seriously gotten me pissed off.

There is far far FAR more money being spent on the so-called "war on drugs" than on any stupid needle program, believe me. But you're right, addicts steal, commit violence, etc. But there are already laws for those crimes. Alcoholics steal and beat people, too.

[SkeleGirl]

Originally Posted by Blitzgal

There is far far FAR more money being spent on the so-called "war on drugs" than on any stupid needle program, believe me.

I'm not saying that money should be spent on the "war on drugs" but rather...treatment even. The safe injection site (link here) was to provide a supervised injection site with medical staff to addicts. I think I'll open my own thread on it for discussion later today, I'm sure there'd be some interesting view points on it - for now I feel like we've kinda hijacked the thread.

YAY Patrice and swimming! Otters are awesome.

[Blitzgal]

I should add before Keith gets irritated at me that I have no moral objection to drinking. The only reason I don't is because I skip the buzz part and go straight ahead to puking sick...I'm a pansy. Anyway, the only reason I bring up alcohol as an example is because for all the arguments about the damage that illegal drugs do one could say the same things occur with alcohol abuse, as well. Well, except for the part where idiot meth labs manage to blow themselves up, I guess.

[hypercrypt]

Originally Posted by sully_04

is this is actually true, which is probably not ture. this is your habit, just embrace it, stop making up shit to justify it, you do drugs. they are illegeal is some way shape or form, even if you live in Amsterdam there are restrictions, stop trying to make it seem ok. Alcohol and ciggaretts are legal, weed is not. It is as bad as anything else for you, dont make excuses for your lifestyle choices, this makes you a hippie.

I admit, in my first year at uni I smoked about four or five days a week, always with friends, never on my own. After the end of my first year I did not smoke for the entire first semester of my second year, with the exception of a three day trip to Amsterdam I have smoked about five or six times this year.

Originally Posted by SkeleGirl

WHOA WHOA whoa!

It's taking me a second to put together all that's wrong with that comment.

In the most general terms, I'm fairly certain that my rights are more likely to be infringed by somebody who's in possession of a drug than any other person. Like I stated earlier, I worked in a beer store while going through University and found time and time again you need to worry about the people on crack or meth or who the hell knows what WAY more than you need to worry about the drunks.

I believe it is the governments job to protect me and my freedoms from people who are in possession/under the influence of drugs and it trumps the druggies need for freedom. Does everybody who's taking drugs go on to do "bad things"? No, but the fact is drugs aren't something I want in my society. Yeah, yeah I know they're here to stay...And I do think that weed is slightly different, but I've seen people waste their lives on it and do nothing. I fully believe it's a self destructive habit in the long term. It all has to start somewhere.


I'm just fucking tired of the money and effort being put out to protect and coddle addicts.
Right now there's a huge issue about safe injection sites on the West Coast and it's seriously gotten me pissed off.

I am not saying that all drugs should be legal, just possession. What is the point of locking up a student, hippie or whoever, for having a small amount of whatever drug on them? This is how money is being wasted. The only way to reduce the drugs on the streets is to go after the suppliers, importers, etc. The criminal record for possession ruins lives too. Sure, you could argue that they should not have had an illegal drugs in the first place, but punishing for it does no-one any good.

[SkeleGirl]

Originally Posted by hypercrypt

The criminal record for possession ruins lives too. Sure, you could argue that they should not have had an illegal drugs in the first place, but punishing for it does no-one any good.

I agree that the only way to really stop drugs is to go after the suppliers. But really, can't give my sympathy to people who have their lives "ruined" by a criminal record for possession. They should know better. And be thankful Keith's rule isn't in place.

I think that punishing it does do somebody good. The only way I got my old roomie to stop smoking weed on my balcony was to tell her that I'd call the cops. Do I think people should be locked up or put in jail for it? Hmm nope. Seeing as something like 1/10 of American adults are currently incarcerated I can't see that doing any good - but I have no problem with a hefty fine or volunteer service, or mandatory rehab. I think that the idea of getting punished for having drugs has kept a lot of people from using them and out of trouble.

You have to look at the big picture and not just you and people who have a "benign" habit, because at the end of the day how are the authorities supposed to approach everything on a case by case effort to determine who has a problem and who doesn't?

[tchikovsky]

I just wanted to comment on the 'pre Oprah' Oprah. Before she had her own show, she was worked at TV station channel 13 (WJZ) here in Baltimore, Maryland. She did some on air work co-anchor work, but then they had her host a local talk show called People are Talking. It was a precursor to her time on The Oprah Winfrey show. I watched a 'biography' show about her a few months ago and apparently, she didn't want to do the show and wanted to quit. But, she was a natural and eventually left for Chicago to start up her own talk show.

She recently came back to Baltimore for a Visit and they had an awkward walk through at the TV station she used to work at (WJZ) along with the guy with whom she co-hosted People are Talking (Richard Sher) who still works at WJZ.

[hypercrypt]

Originally Posted by SkeleGirl

I agree that the only way to really stop drugs is to go after the suppliers. But really, can't give my sympathy to people who have their lives "ruined" by a criminal record for possession. They should know better. And be thankful Keith's rule isn't in place.

I think that punishing it does do somebody good. The only way I got my old roomie to stop smoking weed on my balcony was to tell her that I'd call the cops. Do I think people should be locked up or put in jail for it? Hmm nope. Seeing as something like 1/10 of American adults are currently incarcerated I can't see that doing any good - but I have no problem with a hefty fine or volunteer service, or mandatory rehab. I think that the idea of getting punished for having drugs has kept a lot of people from using them and out of trouble.

You have to look at the big picture and not just you and people who have a "benign" habit, because at the end of the day how are the authorities supposed to approach everything on a case by case effort to determine who has a problem and who doesn't?

Did Keith not say that his "Law" doesn't apply to these things? Did your room mate harm you in any way when she smoked? If not, what was the problem? If she did, then those actions should be the ones that get her in trouble, not the smoking.

It is up to the user, their family or friends to decide if they have a problem. As I said before, the government's job is not to nanny us, it should help people that need and ask for help. If I need a student loan, it is my responsibility to make sure that I fill in all the details to get this.

[SkeleGirl]

Originally Posted by hypercrypt

Did your room mate harm you in any way when she smoked? If not, what was the problem? If she did, then those actions should be the ones that get her in trouble, not the smoking.

That's a seriously ignorant comment from somebody who clearly has never been on the "other side" of drug use.

What was the problem? The problem was that it was MY CONDO that I didn't like it, I didn't like the smell, I didn't like her when she was smoking it and I didn't want it in my home. What if she was smoking cigarettes and I didn't want her to do it, would you still be saying "what's the harm?" I don't think so - because even though there isn't a law specifically against smoking on balconies (yet) CLEARLY there would still be a harm towards me associated with it. Weed isn't some magic substance that everybody should be happy to be around even if it was legal.

My rights and freedoms of not wanting to being around weed were being infringed on. In my own house.

Your argument fails when tried against itself. I'm done with you, go hit up your bong again.

PS: I wasn't stating Keith's Law only for marijuana, I was also referring to meth, crack ect ect...unless Keith is perfectly ok with all that too. Then have at it. Enjoy yourself.

[Grapist]

Originally Posted by SkeleGirl

And be thankful Keith's rule isn't in place.

He's already stated his law doesn't apply to possession of marijuana.