767: KATG Marathon - Butman Meets Soccergirl

[McNally]

I don't remember trying to make the argument that I didn't do anything wrong. I remember making the argument that while I did do something wrong, it was being severely blown out of proportion.

I'd like to point out that during Chemda vs McNally round 1, I did not divert, I did not endlessly employ the term "but", and I did not try to deny that I was anything but wrong. In that argument, I knew that I had made serious mistakes, and I reacted appropriately.

I think it's different when an argument centers around a small, not-fully-understood event such as Brolo's phone. It was very embarrassing and frustrating to me to be characterized in a negative light because of one incident which, once I was actually asked about it, I took great pains to explain. In this debate, I did not feel like we were attempting to meet each other in the middle. I felt like I was being asked to capitulate to an assessment of the situation which was not even based on factual information.

In Chemda vs McNally round 1, I did not have a defense. I was in the wrong, and I quickly accepted that.

In Chemda vs McNally round 2, I thought it was important that my side be understood, because a lack of understanding about what had happened and the motivations behind it seemed to be the reason why the event was blown out of proportion. Therefore, I did not stop arguing, I did frequently employ the word "but", and I did not lay down to an assessment of the event and of my character that I thought was incorrect.

People feeling bad about what happened is not a reason to end an argument. I can feel sorry that I hurt people and continue to argue my position. In fact, I think it's doubly important to do so, to make it clear that I did not intend to hurt anyone. If I were to immediately accept and apologize for the initial view of the situation, I would be apologizing for deliberately hurting people, which is not how things were.

The way I dragged on the debate makes it seem like I simply couldn't see the point of view of the other side. Largely, it was because I felt like my point of view was also not being understood. For me to stop at that point would not be an adult debate, it would be an adult reprimanding a child. In the case of Chemda vs McNally I, that's how it was. I had been acting childishly, I did not have a defense, and I accepted that. In this argument, it was one ill-advised decision that took place in a unique context, and which had no greater meaning or true implications to my character at large. To me, the most important aspect of this debate was for that to be understood.

Which it seems like I didn't accomplish. OH WELLS.

[McNally]

Originally Posted by Sexy_Potatoe_with_an_E

You STILL don't understand that no one was saying you were a bad person,

I would argue that a letter saying, "Hey, remember that phone thing? Let's not have that happen again," is stating exactly that. That suggests an enormous level of distrust about my character. This is why I can't see the other side -- the other side is an incorrect assessment about who I am. I'm not ever going to side with that.

Originally Posted by Sexy_Potatoe_with_an_E

How are we to know YOUR boundaries, without confronting you about them? You clearly don't know ours, that is why we invented TALKING!

I'm not following anymore. If I were to immediately "see the other side" and end the debate with an apology, then we wouldn't be talking. We wouldn't be learning about each other's boundaries. So what was the matter with what I was doing? Was the problem that I didn't agree with the other side? It's a debate. Talking does not equal everybody agreeing. Sometimes, not everyone's gonna see things the same way.

Originally Posted by Sexy_Potatoe_with_an_E

Everyone was partially in the wrong in this situation and could acknowledge that, but you still can't, I don't think.

I think I've acknowledged it as much as the situation merits. If I drove a car through Brolo's house, trust me, I'd feel bad. I'd apologize to the ends of the earth. To do that in this situation would be ridiculous. If what acknowledgments I've made are not enough, too fucking bad. That's all I'm offering.

[kayepants]

BustyyyJenny had memorable titties. Soccergirl, meh.

[Melvin]

Does anyone have an update on what happened to Soccergirl and Ryan?

[McNally]

Things seem to boil down to, "We want you to understand our side". Maybe I don't know how to do that, because if someone looked through my phone I wouldn't give it a 2nd thought. So, if you care to, please lay it out for me. Give me an example, a sample back and forth, about how things should have gone. Because this seems incredibly intangible to me. There is not some clear doorway marked "Resolution" that I am deliberately not walking through.

To me, it's "argue my side" or "don't argue my side". Given those options, I chose to argue my side. When I think my side is in the wrong, like the first time I had a disagreement with Chemda, then I don't argue my side. I don't know what the third option is. I don't know what I'm supposed to do to get across the idea of understanding to the other person, if what I'm already doing is not enough. Please don't hesitate to explain.

[spooky]

Originally Posted by McNally

Things seem to boil down to, "We want you to understand our side". Maybe I don't know how to do that, because if someone looked through my phone I wouldn't give it a 2nd thought.

i havent heard the show, but if you went through my phone, its possible youd violate my privacy, and the privacy of others, to a very large extent. ive had people send me topless pics before, youd be seeing girls in a private manner that you shouldnt be allowed to see, without their consent. ive sent and received some very private texts, everything from pure emotional turmoil over loss of loved ones, people that have wronged them, or over people they have wronged. teXXXts also, some very dirty dirty things, to be sure. ive also talked to people i absolutely should not have been talking to, and it would all be there for you, layed out, and none of it is your business, obviously.

maybe its simple for you because you talk to one girl and who cares. when she sends you a pic of her in a compromising way, though, tell me how youd feel if i saw it? how would your GF feel?

a phone is the modern diary, and something like 6 out of every 7 people has one. and not everyone is as tame as you are, or seem to be.

none of this is my business, so thats all i will add. /shrug

[spooky]

Originally Posted by Sexy_Potatoe_with_an_E

I don't think what McNally did was wrong, I said that.

noted. i will NOT leave my phone laying about around you.

:P

[McNally]

What about the time I dug up Brolo's grandma and looked through her phone? Surely that was okay. I mean, she's dead.

...Right?

[motownguy]

McNally - Just a quick note, but all those books about psychology are written by psychologists and in my experience they are the most consistently fucked up group of people I have ever know in my life. I'm friends with some, was married to one for four years, spent time with her associates and professors, and let me tell you - there is a reason why they choose their field and it usually ain't pretty. We can take this conversation deeper if you want but I'll leave it there for now.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Sajizzle

The thing that I don't think you're being open-minded about is the possibility that McNally does understand where Chemda and BroLo were coming from...

You stopped listening to her because she's young from the first sentence she typed.

McNally himself is saying he doesn't understand where this is coming from. Why are you making up that he does? So you have a point?

On these forums it's highly recommended you read the posts before you comment on them.

Also, never look through my stuff without permission please.