903: What's Yours is Mine

[Amravanti]

I just want to say on the tipping issue, that even after listening the last few shows, and yes, I'm black (mostly), I still consider tipping entirely optional. If I simply don't have the cash, then I may feel guilty if the service was good, but I won't think of it as a big deal. I've gone out to eat knowing that I wouldn't be able to tip. It's something I try to avoid, but it's not something I'll apologize for.

I do tip fairly well, I think. Generally around 20%, but feel free to assume otherwise, because again, it's not a big deal to me. I tip due to appreciation, not obligation, and if I can't, I can't. I'm not your employer. Stop being a waiter if it sucks so much, and if it doesn't, stop whining. I've had crappy jobs, but I've never been a waiter, I understand that you put up with a lot of shit and you get shit wages, but no amount of indignation is going to make me feel guilty about not paying someone else's employee.

The guilty party here is any system that allows any employer to pay less than minimum wage, so don't look at me like I owe anyone anything, I pay for what I buy. Anything more is optional.

As far as why black people tip less, I don't know. My guess is that it's because black culture has adopted "the struggle" as it's own. Black people don't feel they owe anybody anything, if anything, the establishment should be tipping me for eating here, I have it hard too. I mean, why should I tip my waiter when I can't even get a cab in my own city after 6pm? It's like asking a drowning man to save a man on a sinking boat. Or the other way around, whatever. And even those that manage to rise above the struggle think along the lines of 'No one helped me out, so why should I help anyone?' And it's sad, but the Me vs. the World mentality is very much a large part of the culture, and probably plays a huge role, along with just general ignorance (I didn't know how badly waiters were paid either until about a month ago) in explaining why we tip so badly.

I'm pretty sure black people are poorer on average than white people, though, so I don't think the statistic on black/white tipping was very fair at all. I'm willing to bet dentists tip more than single mothers also. So part of it is probably just the fact that certain patterns are more overt, since we tend to categorize people by race instinctively anyway. It's easier to tell black person from a white person than it is to tell whether or not someone has two kids at home to feed. And everyone knows, any black person over the age of 16 is somebody's babymomma/daddy anyway.

My own opinion on tipping has nothing to do with either race or culture, though perhaps nationality does play a part (I was raised in Jamaica, where tipping is rare among locals and tourist alike, but where in general, waiters are paid relatively well). My opinion is just an opinion.

I regret that my first post on the forums takes such an invidious stance, but eh.

[blu]

Originally Posted by Amravanti

I just want to say on the tipping issue, that even after listening the last few shows, and yes, I'm black (mostly), I still consider tipping entirely optional. If I simply don't have the cash, then I may feel guilty if the service was good, but I won't think of it as a big deal. I've gone out to eat knowing that I wouldn't be able to tip. It's something I try to avoid, but it's not something I'll apologize for.

I do tip fairly well, I think. Generally around 20%, but feel free to assume otherwise, because again, it's not a big deal to me. I tip due to appreciation, not obligation, and if I can't, I can't. I'm not your employer. Stop being a waiter if it sucks so much, and if it doesn't, stop whining. I've had crappy jobs, but I've never been a waiter, I understand that you put up with a lot of shit and you get shit wages, but no amount of indignation is going to make me feel guilty about not paying someone else's employee.

The guilty party here is any system that allows any employer to pay less than minimum wage, so don't look at me like I owe anyone anything, I pay for what I buy. Anything more is optional.

As far as why black people tip less, I don't know. My guess is that it's because black culture has adopted "the struggle" as it's own. Black people don't feel they owe anybody anything, if anything, the establishment should be tipping me for eating here, I have it hard too. I mean, why should I tip my waiter when I can't even get a cab in my own city after 6pm? It's like asking a drowning man to save a man on a sinking boat. Or the other way around, whatever. And even those that manage to rise above the struggle think along the lines of 'No one helped me out, so why should I help anyone?' And it's sad, but the Me vs. the World mentality is very much a large part of the culture, and probably plays a huge role, along with just general ignorance (I didn't know how badly waiters were paid either until about a month ago) in explaining why we tip so badly.

I'm pretty sure black people are poorer on average than white people, though, so I don't think the statistic on black/white tipping was very fair at all. I'm willing to bet dentists tip more than single mothers also. So part of it is probably just the fact that certain patterns are more overt, since we tend to categorize people by race instinctively anyway. It's easier to tell black person from a white person than it is to tell whether or not someone has two kids at home to feed. And everyone knows, any black person over the age of 16 is somebody's babymomma/daddy anyway.

My own opinion on tipping has nothing to do with either race or culture, though perhaps nationality does play a part (I was raised in Jamaica, where tipping is rare among locals and tourist alike, but where in general, waiters are paid relatively well). My opinion is just an opinion.

I regret that my first post on the forums takes such an invidious stance, but eh.

fuuuuuuuck you!! and welcome to the forums...

[Keith]

Fuck you, indeed.

[Amravanti]

You know what your problem is? You've never been black.

Of course you're on their side.

[motownguy]

Originally Posted by Amravanti

You know what your problem is? You've never been black.

Of course you're on their side.

Huh? What? How do you know I've never been black? Maybe I just went back.

[Amravanti]

Originally Posted by motownguy

Huh? What? How do you know I've never been black? Maybe I just went back.

Impossible.

[koofle]

Personally, living in HK and Australia all my life, I never knew that US waiters lived purely off tips. Even when on holiday in the states, it was not obvious to me. Well now I do, and there is No Excuse For Not Tipping.

And on the debates between Matt and Chemda - first I agreed with Matt, then I agreed with Chemda and by the end, I thought they were both right because they were arguing slightly different things.

[garrym13]

Okay, all the other black guys here are not really helping, so I will speak up. I think it is all how you grow up. My dad is a cheap bastard but, he will not hesitate to tip. I saw him tip as I was growing up therefore, I have never not tipped. I even tip the carhops at Sonic's. Now, if you ask me why my dad was a good tipper, I do not have an answer. I think that any black person that does not feel obligated to tip is really not living in reality. If you do not have enough money to tip, then you should not go out for dinner, lunch etc.

[Amravanti]

Thank you, I think...


"black people don't feel like they owe anyone anything", not a generalization, by the way. This is why I never lend any of my family money.


Also, Arab extremists are worse because they're crueler to their own, more dedicated to their cause, and because they've been doing it far longer, and are far more set in their ways because of it. I mean, just 50 years now, and Germany is already over the whole nazi thing. It'd take more than killing Muhammad and 50 years of peace to stop Al-Qaeda.

And I know Matt came off as a liberal, artfag, but I'm totally on his side here, and I don't get why Chemda finds it so hard to believe that a Nazi could be hesistant to destroy a work of art. Even if every nazi were pure evil, it has nothing to do with one's appreciation of art.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Amravanti

I do tip fairly well, I think. Generally around 20%.

Of course you do.