903: What's Yours is Mine

[batlash]

Originally Posted by McNally

I plan to be in town for Keith's April 15th shows as long as he keeps doing them, and I'm sure I'll keep podcasting on my own, if you find yourself curious about my various horse-fuckery. Or just swing by Canada and ask around. They know me.

Oh, you're THAT Keith- we were wondering where you went brother!! We only have 2 keiths here ( McNally & black Keith ) - and without McNally here -black keith was getting kinda uppity, thank God you're back!

[Bucho]

Originally Posted by McNally

I don't think anywhere else in North America is quite like New York. I didn't understand the magnitude of it before I came. Its population dwarfs other American cities. It's got double the people of Los Angeles. The gross national product of the Tri-State Area alone is on par with all of Canada. The place is a fucking crazy house.

What you need to do to cure your NYC hate is spend a week in Mexico City or Sao Paulo. They make New York look like a tiny bonzai rose garden and smell even better.

[crazyrob]

Originally Posted by McNally

I plan to be in town for Keith's April 15th shows as long as he keeps doing them, and I'm sure I'll keep podcasting on my own, if you find yourself curious about my various horse-fuckery. Or just swing by Canada and ask around. They know me.

But with over staying your visa you might have trouble getting back in the states now

[Amravanti]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

Dude, you stiffed waiters on tips because you refused to eat at home. That's an asshole. It's not colored perceptions. You are depriving people of a proper wage. Fuck you.

That argument doesn't work for a number of reasons.

One, because I live in California, where waiters are payed at least minimum wage, generally more.

Two, I wouldn't be depriving anyone of a proper wage. The system would be. Or the employer. That's sort of the main point I've tried to make here. How can anyone seriously blame a customer for an employee's wages?

Also, this may be shaky logic, but staying home in effect has the same outcome as not tipping. I end up depriving the restaurant of business. Provided the place isn't so packed that I'm taking the space of another customer. In fact, everytime I don't go out to eat, I'm depriving a waiter somewhere of a proper wage. Should I go out to eat every night in a crusade to save the waiting world? Should I go out to eat in every restaurant at once, at all times?

Three, I do tip. I'm pretty sure my tipping habits over the last year average out to at least 15%. Curious. Does that make a difference at all? Or is anyone who goes out without tipping an asshole, regardless of his past tipping history?

This must be annoying to everyone at this point, so I'm officially done with this now. Promise. It's obvious no one agrees with me and no one is going to change my mind.

[crazyrob]

Originally Posted by Amravanti

That argument doesn't work for a number of reasons.

One, because I live in California, where waiters are payed at least minimum wage, generally more.

Two, I wouldn't be depriving anyone of a proper wage. The system would be. Or the employer. That's sort of the main point I've tried to make here. How can anyone seriously blame a customer for an employee's wages?

Also, this may be shaky logic, but staying home in effect has the same outcome as not tipping. I end up depriving the restaurant of business. Provided the place isn't so packed that I'm taking the space of another customer. In fact, everytime I don't go out to eat, I'm depriving a waiter somewhere of a proper wage. Should I go out to eat every night in a crusade to save the waiting world? Should I go out to eat in every restaurant at once, at all times?

Three, I do tip. I'm pretty sure my tipping habits over the last year average out to at least 15%. Curious. Does that make a difference at all? Or is anyone who goes out without tipping an asshole, regardless of his past tipping history?

This must be annoying to everyone at this point, so I'm officially done with this now. Promise. It's obvious no one agrees with me and no one is going to change my mind.

So you know the min salary of serving staff in each place you visit? And you think minimum wage is enough to make a living...its not take an economic course

Funny that average salary of California server is 2% LESS then the rest of America.

I love that you blame the system spoken like a true African American. The system is the problem not the people. Its the people who make the system and take avantage of it and you are one of them.

I am glad Keith cited the Cornell research done proving that blacks as a whole tip less. Just cause you say you tip more doesn't prove the study wrong. Heck you tipping a min of 15% means that there are people tipping much less than you. Again take a math class and learn percentages

[Amravanti]

I'm not African American, and I've never disputed or doubted that black people tip less. I've even attempted to explain it. And this is probably the first time I've blamed the system for anything in my life.

That is all.


Oh, and I find that hard to believe about California, since we have the highest minimum wage in the country. I had to live on it for a time, by the way, so I know what it's like.

[Grapist]

A friend of mine wrote a free app for iphone/ipode-touch called Accutip. It made the business top 100 the first day and moved to 31 in free finance apps in 2. It has over 200 downloads, interestingly enough, there seem to be a lot of people in other countries downloading it. Noteably, Japan, Canada and Australia, along with others in various other countries. Maybe it will help educate tourists about tipping when they come here, who knows.

[batlash]

Originally Posted by Amravanti

That argument doesn't work for a number of reasons.

One, because I live in California, where waiters are payed at least minimum wage, generally more.

Two, I wouldn't be depriving anyone of a proper wage. The system would be. Or the employer. That's sort of the main point I've tried to make here. How can anyone seriously blame a customer for an employee's wages?

Also, this may be shaky logic, but staying home in effect has the same outcome as not tipping. I end up depriving the restaurant of business.<.br><br> [SNIP]<br><br>
This must be annoying to everyone at this point, so I'm officially done with this now. Promise. It's obvious no one agrees with me and no one is going to change my mind.

For sake of arguement, I've posted the standards set by the US dept. of Labour Standards at U.S. Department of Labor - Employment Standards Administration (ESA) - Wage & Hour Divisions (WHD) - Minimum Wages for Tipped Employees

According to them, there is a minimum set under federal statutes for cash wages ( $ 2.13 ) and does set a minimum "cash + tips" wage ( $ 6.55 ), so if companies are following the law - which many do NOT - the wage is supplemented by the employer if it's not met by tips. It should be noted that in NYC that the combined min. set is $ 7.15.

In Calfornia, the minimum set is a "lofty" $ 8.00/hr CASH wages ( before any tips ) - so assuming you only go to establishments that respect the law - giving them no tip is not "stealing" as much as it is defying customary traditions.

That being said, a LOT of establishments are scumbags and do NOT respect these minimum standards set by law. Knowing that, does that make a difference?

[Amravanti]

Thank you very much. That's all I was saying. It's a tradition, not an obligation. One I subscribe to when my means allow.

So waiters are supposed to get at least minimum wage, but are often stiffed by their employers. That is shitty. I don't see how I'm wrong to blame the system or employers for this, and I don't know why that one guy brought race back into it.

I've never seen a serving position here in California advertised for less than 8/h + tips. And it's usually at least 9. And I did seriously consider being a waiter at one point, so I was looking through many of them. Waiters get by just fine here. I've worked for that much without tips.

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by Amravanti

Thank you very much. That's all I was saying. It's a tradition, not an obligation. One I subscribe to when my means allow.

So waiters are supposed to get at least minimum wage, but are often stiffed by their employers. That is shitty. I don't see how I'm wrong to blame the system or employers for this, and I don't know why that one guy brought race back into it.

I've never seen a serving position here in California advertised for less than 8/h + tips. And it's usually at least 9. And I did seriously consider being a waiter at one point, so I was looking through many of them.

Dude, you're shitty because you're supporting a shitty system by being a patron of a place that does shitty things and you don't rectify the shittiness yourself.

You're saying "If it's so bad don't work there or get paid more," but that's horseshit. Either go to a restaurant and tip the waiter properly or don't fucking go there at all. You're taking advantage of someone in a shitty situation by making them work as if you are paying them, but then you stiff them at the end of the meal.

If you're going to blame it on the system, don't go there. Those of us who are willing to tip will support the system and will pay waiters what they deserve, and they won't have to deal with your dumb ass fucking their night up.

And do you think you get any fucking credibility because you've seen ads for waiters and you considered becoming a waiter?