1919: To Catch a Predator

[Keith]

with Ray DeVito

www.twitter.com/RayDeVito


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[flerchin]

Of course, the correct poll answer is "Whichever flavor you receive."

[Dean from Australia]

Working as a male nurse in a Children's ER was often pretty scary - especially when it came to treating pre-teen and teenaged girls.

In the case of angst ridden teenaged girls who are being treated for behavioural issues, the chances of them accusing me of some sort of inappropriate behaviour were always raised. As a result, hospital policy is such that male nurses are required to take a chaperon (a second female nurse) into the exam room with them.

I was one of the few nurses in the ER qualified to insert urinary catheters into female patients and was often called upon perform this procedure when it was required. In those situations, I would take two chaperons into the exam room and the procedure would be explained in detail to the parents prior to actually doing it. I only ever encountered one or two parents who were potentially incendiary during the procedure. In the many procedures I performed over the years, the stress of having performed it and the fear that a parent would throw an accusation at me - it took a toll.

[Scumhook]

Predator, or pre-dater???


I think I've been listening to fucking Hang Out With Me too much.

[Thumbnail]

In Portugal, about 10 years ago, we had a case that involved a bunch of well known celebrities and politicians. There's this institution that helps children and young people suffering from an array of issues (mental or physical disabilities, abuse, neglect, poverty). It's a huge organization and very good institution that happened to come across a few deviants. This janitor/ driver/ general creep who worked there would drive children and teens to houses so that influential people could have their way. Their silence was bought with gifts and blackmail.

When this all came out the society's opinion split: some believed the children (now adults because this lasted for a long time), some believed the celebrities. Some said that a few of the accused were definitely guilty because they looked like they would do that but others were being framed. Then came the discussion over whether or not the kids were also using the abusers to get gifts (this was clearly dismissed when another well known celebrity was thrown in the mix and in a couple of weeks the investigation found that the teenager was riding the wave to blackmail him).

I'm saying all this because it ressonates with the Woody Allen case. One of the public figures here is a very well known tv host and producer, beloved for decades. People were in an outrage, he was most certainly framed. Or was he? I read the proven facts part of the accusation (my phd thesis revolves around these issues) and I couldn't go past a certain point. The level of detail, the "he stuck his finger", the "he licked", the "he sniffed"... The guy is in jail, he was convicted and he still has supporters. A lot of people aren't necessarily on his side, they just feel tricked into enjoying a pervert's work. Most people say fuck him, let him rot in hell; others can't believe a nice man would do such a thing but change their opinion. Others will never change their minds over this or anything else, really. And there's also the ones who do change their minds but cannot admit to ever being wrong. My own mother was uncertain until he was jailed and she's an ex-teacher, a loving and compassionate woman who now admits she was tricked.

If Woody Allen was a 70 year old man living in a trailer park and Dylan was his stepdaughter, raised in a family of multiple marriages, divorces, children from different parents and adopted/ foster kids (with the added bonus that trailer park Woody ended up marrying one of the adopted children) would anyone doubt her? But no, Woody Allen is an artist, he's a public figure, he entered our minds for years. Certainly Dylan is lying, she must want something from the rich old man. It's all about money, fame and perception.

[Keith]

I really need to change 'Like' to 'I hear ya.'

[Lanfear]

Originally Posted by Keith

I really need to change 'Like' to 'I hear ya.'

while you are on it can you get a "shush" button done as well?

[kebri]

This episode brought up two things for me:

One-when I was about 4 years old, my parents had gone to a party and my uncle was babysitting me and my brother. He invited a friend over. Well, turns out that friend liked little girls. I remember telling my parents later that night that I was burning "down there" and they went ballistic.

I'm not sure whatever happened to the guy or if the police were even called but my father forbid my uncle from ever stepping foot into our house. I remembered the incident years later when I was in high school but never thought about it again.

My father passed away about 4 years ago and soon after that my mother started letting my uncle come around the house (I moved in with her after my dad died). My mom had a stroke a couple of years ago and while my uncle still visits her, I keep my distance. I know it wasn't him but I feel like he's the asshole that let it happen on his watch. I never asked my parents what happened and quite honestly I really don't think I want to know (knowing my father he probably shot the guy).

Two: I've been listening to you guys for years and you really have helped me in my relationship with my daughter. I use to take her to and from school and we would talk all the time. As she got older (she's a senior now) we still spend the time when I get home from work talking about our days. I was so grateful that felt comfortable to come out to me when she was in middle school. I make sure she knows that she can tell me anything and I won't judge.

I think the whole reason we have such an open relationship is that I took the advice of you guys and your guests/listeners. She always tells me how jealous her friends are about how she can tell me anything and they can't talk to their parents. I think that if parents were reminded of their own childhood and the relationship they had with their parents, they might be a little more mindful of the way they raised their kids now.

Anyway, thanks again for a great show and I'm so happy to hear from Ray. He is one of my favorites

[dori]

I don't know how relevant this is but I wanted to bring up a story from my time spent observing children's psychiatry.

One story that really stuck in my mind was of a 5 year old girl who was taken into a therapist by her mother who was becoming increasingly worried and confused about the odd subject matter and images her daughter was focused on. She said that as a younger child her daughter was social, the center of attention in family gatherings and happy like any other little girl. But recently her doodles and sketches have been focused on snakes in bushes and evil faces. Also she keeps mentioning a loud pig grunting noise. After 6 months of therapy, which involved the doctor using art and toys to represent situations in the girl's life it was found out that she had been raped every night by her father. This process had started from the age of 3 years old slowly and progressed to actual penetration by the age of 5 which is when her disturbed views began to manifest.
The psychiatrist still has some of the artwork that this little girl made and I could not tell you how vivid it was. She had drawn everything SCENE by SCENE and the emotions would just jump out at you. The pillow, the bed, her lying alone, her father standing over her happy, her vagina, his penis ( the snake), his face enjoying it, her wishing and waiting for it to end, the wetness of ejaculate and his loud grunting (pig noises) and then the fear of him coming again.
She had another drawing that showed a stick figure with a penis between the legs and the therapist had annotated it in the girl's words "The thing I hate most about a man".
At first when you see these drawings you don't know whether to laugh or cry, they look like a series of dirty comics but the sadness comes with knowing a 5 year old child was forced into having all these experiences.

FYI, the mother divorced the dad but he later remarried and has had more children..As for the girl she has gone on to have a successful life involving higher education, marriage and kids and still visits her father but will never introduce her children to him.

The reason this situation was "saved" in a sense is because her mother was attune to her child to some degree. She noticed the difference and sought professional help. She did not abandon her daughter when the truth came out (and this is in a very conservative society-middle eastern country). If Mia Farrow wants to lay the blame at Woody Allen she should also feel some guilt for letting her daughter be brushed off and have to deal with this pain resurfacing for years. I am glad that Dylan is able to speak openly about this despite all those ignorant naysayers.

Anyone who wants to doubt child abuse victims, needs to go talk to someone who was abused and get a sense of reality.
Child abuse is frequently under reported due to the guilt, shame and fear of punishment felt by these children. Despite this fact, 20% of females recount a history of sexual abuse as children and 5-10% of males do too. Neither of these figures are acceptable and people need to stick their heads out of the sand when it comes to this issue.

I am personally appalled that a man like Woody is able to not only get away with acts like these but continue to be held in high regard by Hollywood and the rest of the world. The people who defend him should have their parenting checked.

[Blitzgal]

This dovetails nicely to the point that Chemda made about what we can do to try to help this issue, and that is being open to our kids and letting them feel like they are safe to come to us with any issues they may have. All of the people writing into the show who were shut down by their parents when they tried to tell them about it just breaks my heart. People should not be more worried about the family's reputation than they are about stopping the abuse. That's the same thing that happens at the institutional level, which was talked about on the show with the Sandusky stuff. They protect their image first, at the expense of rape victims.