California Proposition 19 - A Citizen's Initiative to Legalise Cannabis

[kaligula]

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[punk'n]

I don't smoke pot really so I don't have much of an opinion on whether or not it's legal, but California does have a huge debt problem and could use the revenue, if you look at it from that perspective.

[fluxquanta]

http://www.keithandthegirl.com/forum...ot-wars-14752/

Nice job searching. I mean, it was all the way on the second page.

[fluxquanta]

Originally Posted by fluxquanta

I know I've posted in this thread before, but with November 2 coming up quickly, I'd like to add a couple of points regarding Proposition 19 in California. I do agree with the legalization of marijuana under two conditions:

One, the federal government needs to legalize it before the states. As it stands right now, the feds could totally fuck over California if Prop 19 goes through next week. Considering all the debt the country has, I really wouldn't blame them. Got a college in California that wants federal funding? They allow pot under Prop 19? They no longer comply with federal drug free school laws, and therefore aren't eligible for federal funding. Saves the national government money, screws Californians.

Second, the law needs to be clearer about working and driving under the influence of marijuana. I don't care what anyone says about "driving high is safer than driving drunk." I strongly disagree. And I don't want to go to work, especially in a hazardous environment, and have someone there who is under the influence and does something that harms his/her co-workers. From what I read, the way the law would be is that something bad would happen first, and THEN people would get in trouble for the pot in their system. The law needs to be proactive, and not wait for shit to hit the fan. Ideally we pull over and penalize those who drive erratically under the influence, or discipline those who work under the influence, before they wrap their SUV around a tree or kill half a dozen co-workers.

Just my opinions. Rage on.

Derp.

[amyuilani]

If you want to alleviate the overcrowding problem in prisons, release inmates who are doing time for marijuana crimes, mainly possession. It's ridiculous. Pot doesn't hurt anyone. That's a good 30% of the prison population out, and in CA, that's a significant relief to the burden.

If you want to increase revenue to the state, decriminalize and regulate pot. Make dealers licensed and tax them. Use a lot of the barren farm land in the middle of the state where the old farms have dried up and start planting hemp. We want to "go green," yet we won't cultivate this incredible resource?

No wonder we as a nation are broke and stupid.

[fluxquanta]

Originally Posted by amyuilani

We want to "go green," yet we won't cultivate this incredible resource?

Queue Jesse Joyce joke.

Originally Posted by kaligula

Individual states have to stand up against federal bullying.

Fuck it, why even have a federal government?

[amyuilani]

Originally Posted by kaligula

Thanks, Flux. The driving one is a complex issue for enforcement, but I disagree about federal vs state legalisation.

Individual states have to stand up against federal bullying. This isn't an issue of the federal government enforcing the rights of its citizen a la the Civil Rights issue, but their attempt to enforce a decidedly anti-constitutional law.
You don't respond to back-handed threats by blinking but by dragging the whole debacle into the light of day.

This may be one of those situations where CA passes the law, but a federal judge overturns it if it is deemed unconstitutional. Unfortunately, I don't see where this is a constitutional issue. If you see where it is, I would like to see it too.

[amyuilani]

Originally Posted by kaligula

The Federal government of the United States has several uses.

Abusing the powers granted it to force a state's drug policy isn't on the list.



Fortunately, it absolutely is. The federal agency that first abused its power to effectively prohibit cannabis was the Treasury Department, charged with managing government revenue. They simply put an unpayable tax on cannabis.

Now the Feds claim that their role in governing interstate commerce allows the DEA to prevent intrastate cultivation, since it will affect market prices in other states.

I have read the constitution several times, and I don't see the same argument you are making. The government has declared this a states' rights issue, so Congress would have no say in it.

[amyuilani]

Originally Posted by kaligula

I was a little glib. I believe that this is a constitutional issue precisely because federal drugs bans are an exploit of holes in the difficult-to-patch constitution and contrary to its spirit.

Though several individuals in the government believe that this is a state's rights issue, the Obama administration has been pretty explicit in saying that California does not have the right to its own drugs law.

I can see where the argument comes from as far as federal vs. state, but I don't see a constitutional issue. I read the wiki on it (I don't live in CA anymore so I did have to read further into it), and the biggest issue seems to be that even in passing this law in the state, the sale of marijuana would be in violation of the Controlled Substances Act. For CA's proposal to truly be effective, CA's legislators would have to somehow send a bill to the floor that would remove marijuana from the CSA, which would take away that loophole. Otherwise, it doesn't matter how many states pass pro-marijuana laws, they would all be stricken down because of CSA or some similar Act.

(wiki: California Proposition 19 (2010) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

I support the bill, and if I lived in CA, I'd vote in favor of it.

[Cretaceous Bob]

States being stripped of jurisdiction over issues is a double edged sword. The Federal Government was given the power to tell you that you can't smoke pot so that they can turn around and tell other people that they can't have slaves.

Everybody cries for state's rights when the Federal Government stops something they want and everybody cries for federal control when the states allow something they don't like.

Hard to care about weed when America's relationship with drugs is really warped. Even our relationship with alcohol has always been weird.

That's far past any reality here anyway; conservatism has a strong grip on VA. I'm over here trying to get this stupid city to stop inflicting Eric Cantor on the nation, but probably to no avail.