How good/bad is your socialized health care?

ihatethesooners · 04-01-2009, 02:10 PM

I don't want to start a debate about whether or not it's right for the United States, I'm just very curious. We hear the argument about how terrible socialized health care is in other countries. People having to wait six months for an emergency surgery or dying because they couldn't get seen.

So I want to ask those of you who live in other countries that have government-run health care; Is it true or not? Do you have any horror stories? I know there are forum users from the U.K., New Zealand and Australia, and so on, so I'd like for you to weigh in with your thoughts about your health care systems.

jorjo · 04-01-2009, 02:53 PM

New Zealand: First off, ALL emergency care is immediate. You may have to wait in the ER while more urgent cases are seen to, but you will be treated.

The entire treatment is free – all x-rays, tests, the stay in hospital, bandages, stitches, casts, food etc etc.

Non-emergency care is a different story – non urgent surgery goes on a waiting list (of varying length), with the option to “go private” and either pay for everything yourself or, if covered, have it paid for by medical insurance.

Day to day visits to the GP are charged (around $NZ60), as are prescriptions (costs depend on the medication and subsidies). People on low income (social security benefits, minimum wage etc) receive subsidised GP visits and prescriptions as do high-use patients (based on number of Dr visits / prescriptions per year). I believe all medical treatment for children up to the age of five is also free (I could be wrong on that though).

I’ve never had to wait long for treatment. When I needed a cyst removed I was in hospital within a week, when I had pleurisy I was admitted to hospital immediately, and later transferred to a larger hospital when it became clear surgery was required, when my son used to have asthma attacks in the middle of the night we never waited more than 1/2 an hour in the ER (in fact, I’m pretty sure we never waited more than 10 minutes), and when my son was stabbed in the chest he was seen immediately.

All maternity care (check-ups, scans, tests and care required before, during and after the birth) is free but, again, you can choose to go private.

Subsidised contraception and abortions are available, again free or close to it.

In the UK where I am now … so far everything has been free except prescriptions – GP visits, cervical smears etc. Plus I also had an IUD fitted, and subsequently removed, for free. Hospital visits, emergency surgery etc are all also free.

In both NZ and the UK dental care is not free, although it may be subsidised.

I’m basically pretty happy with the system in both countries. I like knowing I can obtain treatment regardless of my financial circumstances. The only downside is with regard to non-urgent care as waiting lists can be lengthy, but then I can choose to have medical insurance or pay for my own treatment. When it comes to dying while waiting for surgery – that may happen if waiting for something like an organ transplant if a suitable donor isn’t found, but generally, if the surgery is “life or death” you would be bumped up the waiting list. The only limitations then are available surgeons and facilities. Often the same doctors are treating both free and private patients, so the standard of care is about the same, although a private hospital is more comfortable as you will be in either a private room or small shared room, rather than a ward.

There is also the opinion that people are discharged from hospital too early, but I have not experienced that myself (I stayed a week after my son was born - mostly because I was a scared teenager, certainly not because I needed to be there for medical reasons).

In the UK I do have medical insurance (provided by my employer) but I haven’t had to use it yet as I haven’t incurred any costs.

(I’m sure Bebe will correct any mistakes I may have made)

BrianAlt · 04-01-2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorjo

In both NZ and the UK dental care is not free, although it may be subsidised.

Ah ha! So that's why!

Other than that, obviously NZ:0, UK:0, US:1!

jorjo · 04-01-2009, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianAlt

Ah ha! So that's why!

Other than that, obviously NZ:0, UK:0, US:1!

haha. I think you'll find that dental care isn't free in the US either

BrianAlt · 04-01-2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorjo

haha. I think you'll find that dental care isn't free in the US either

Details...

Twrexx · 04-01-2009, 03:17 PM

hows it going? Im an American, so Im not going to say I know first hand what's going on in other countries, but here are a couple things i dug up after me and sooners tete a tete( I know it needs the marks above the e's and a' just didnt look up how to do it).

I also want to say, I know American healthcare could use reform, hell NEEDS reform, but Socialised healthcare hasn't convinced me it's the answer.

here are my "findings" :

The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care by David Gratzer, City Journal Summer 2007

some excerpts from the above article:

•Mountain-bike enthusiast Suzanne Aucoin had to fight more than her Stage IV colon cancer. Her doctor suggested Erbitux—a proven cancer drug that targets cancer cells exclusively, unlike conventional chemotherapies that more crudely kill all fast-growing cells in the body—and Aucoin went to a clinic to begin treatment. But if Erbitux offered hope, Aucoin’s insurance didn’t: she received one inscrutable form letter after another, rejecting her claim for reimbursement.
Yet another example of the callous hand of managed care, depriving someone of needed medical help, right? Guess again. Erbitux is standard treatment, covered by insurance companies—in the United States. Aucoin lives in Ontario, Canada.

•In The Business of Health, Robert Ohsfeldt and John Schneider factor out intentional and unintentional injuries from life-expectancy statistics and find that Americans who don’t die in car crashes or homicides outlive people in any other Western country.

•And if we measure a health-care system by how well it serves its sick citizens, American medicine excels. Five-year cancer survival rates bear this out. For leukemia, the American survival rate is almost 50 percent; the European rate is just 35 percent. Esophageal carcinoma: 12 percent in the United States, 6 percent in Europe. The survival rate for prostate cancer is 81.2 percent here, yet 61.7 percent in France and down to 44.3 percent in England—a striking variation.

•Baker isn’t alone: other private-sector health options are blossoming across Canada, and the government is increasingly turning a blind eye to them, too, despite their often uncertain legal status. Private clinics are opening at a rate of about one a week. Companies like MedCan now offer “corporate medicals” that include an array of diagnostic tests and a referral to Johns Hopkins, if necessary.

•America is right to seek a model for delivering good health care at good prices, but we should be looking not to Canada, but close to home—in the other four-fifths or so of our economy. From telecommunications to retail, deregulation and market competition have driven prices down and quality and productivity up. Health care is long overdue for the same prescription.

there are other articles just google the topic, I wont clog up the thread with more.

btw, ihatethesooners, saying you arent trying to start a debate is the quickest way to start one, just saying.

ihatethesooners · 04-01-2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twrexx

here are my "findings"

The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care by David Gratzer, City Journal Summer 2007

btw, ihatethesooners, saying you arent trying to start a debate is the quickest way to start one, just saying.

Are you Canadian? Have you lived under Canadian health care? If not, I don't want to hear about your 'findings.' I want to hear from forum users who live in Canada (and NZ and UK, etc ...)

I DON'T want a debate. I want real-life EXPERIENCES from other countries' health care systems from forum users. If that's not you, then STFU and GTFO.

Thanks Jorjo. That was the sort of information I was looking for.

Twrexx · 04-01-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihatethesooners

Are you Canadian? Have you lived under Canadian health care? If not, I don't want to hear about your 'findings.' I want to hear from forum users who live in Canada (and NZ and UK, etc ...)

I DON'T want a debate. I want real-life EXPERIENCES from other countries' health care systems from forum users. If that's not you, then STFU and GTFO.

Thanks Jorjo. That was the sort of information I was looking for.

well if you can "hear" type, then you probably dont need any healthcare anyway, seeing as you are in some way superhuman.
ps-- make me

pps- i dont have to drive a Yugo to know I don't want one, the same logic applies.

rylake · 04-01-2009, 05:09 PM

I live north of Toronto, Ontario and have nothing but good experiences with the Health care system here. I have played hockey for the bulk of my life and have gotten many cuts and stitches over the years, and have always been looked after quickly and efficiently. I have never payed a cent (besides income taxes) for any of these services, but do pay for 20% of the cost of prescription drugs (which is covered by most employers at no extra cost).

I had a Hernia when I was in College (from hockey again...) and had my surgery 1 week after I saw my doctor about it. Hernia surgery is not something that would be at the top of the list because it is day surgery and the condition is not life threatening. There are exceptions to everyone's personal experience with the health care system, but I think that most people would say they had a positive one.

I remember when I was working for an American company and went down for Training and they went through the health care benefits for both the US and Canadian employees since it was a mixed group. The cost for an American employee was about $200-300 month, while for the Canadians it was $4.50/month with the exact same coverage (including dental).

Anyways...here is a picture of the good 'ol Canadian health care systems handiwork...Total time in the ER - maybe an hour.

buster · 04-01-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twrexx

•Mountain-bike enthusiast Suzanne Aucoin had to fight more than her Stage IV colon cancer. Her doctor suggested Erbitux—a proven cancer drug that targets cancer cells exclusively, unlike conventional chemotherapies that more crudely kill all fast-growing cells in the body—and Aucoin went to a clinic to begin treatment. But if Erbitux offered hope, Aucoin’s insurance didn’t: she received one inscrutable form letter after another, rejecting her claim for reimbursement.
Yet another example of the callous hand of managed care, depriving someone of needed medical help, right? Guess again. Erbitux is standard treatment, covered by insurance companies—in the United States. Aucoin lives in Ontario, Canada.

Perscriptions have never(in my lifetime at least) been covered by our government heathcare. These "letters of rejection" would be from her own insurance provider and have nothing to do with OHIP(Ontario Health Insurance Plan).

My experiences with the system have been positive. However it could use some tweeking and I wouldn't say that it's perfect.

04-01-2009, 02:53 PM	#2 (permalink)
jorjo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand :) Posts: 5,345	New Zealand: First off, ALL emergency care is immediate. You may have to wait in the ER while more urgent cases are seen to, but you will be treated. The entire treatment is free – all x-rays, tests, the stay in hospital, bandages, stitches, casts, food etc etc. Non-emergency care is a different story – non urgent surgery goes on a waiting list (of varying length), with the option to “go private” and either pay for everything yourself or, if covered, have it paid for by medical insurance. Day to day visits to the GP are charged (around $NZ60), as are prescriptions (costs depend on the medication and subsidies). People on low income (social security benefits, minimum wage etc) receive subsidised GP visits and prescriptions as do high-use patients (based on number of Dr visits / prescriptions per year). I believe all medical treatment for children up to the age of five is also free (I could be wrong on that though). I’ve never had to wait long for treatment. When I needed a cyst removed I was in hospital within a week, when I had pleurisy I was admitted to hospital immediately, and later transferred to a larger hospital when it became clear surgery was required, when my son used to have asthma attacks in the middle of the night we never waited more than 1/2 an hour in the ER (in fact, I’m pretty sure we never waited more than 10 minutes), and when my son was stabbed in the chest he was seen immediately. All maternity care (check-ups, scans, tests and care required before, during and after the birth) is free but, again, you can choose to go private. Subsidised contraception and abortions are available, again free or close to it. In the UK where I am now … so far everything has been free except prescriptions – GP visits, cervical smears etc. Plus I also had an IUD fitted, and subsequently removed, for free. Hospital visits, emergency surgery etc are all also free. In both NZ and the UK dental care is not free, although it may be subsidised. I’m basically pretty happy with the system in both countries. I like knowing I can obtain treatment regardless of my financial circumstances. The only downside is with regard to non-urgent care as waiting lists can be lengthy, but then I can choose to have medical insurance or pay for my own treatment. When it comes to dying while waiting for surgery – that may happen if waiting for something like an organ transplant if a suitable donor isn’t found, but generally, if the surgery is “life or death” you would be bumped up the waiting list. The only limitations then are available surgeons and facilities. Often the same doctors are treating both free and private patients, so the standard of care is about the same, although a private hospital is more comfortable as you will be in either a private room or small shared room, rather than a ward. There is also the opinion that people are discharged from hospital too early, but I have not experienced that myself (I stayed a week after my son was born - mostly because I was a scared teenager, certainly not because I needed to be there for medical reasons). In the UK I do have medical insurance (provided by my employer) but I haven’t had to use it yet as I haven’t incurred any costs. (I’m sure Bebe will correct any mistakes I may have made)
(Offline)

04-01-2009, 03:17 PM	#6 (permalink)
Twrexx Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Hub city Posts: 36	hows it going? Im an American, so Im not going to say I know first hand what's going on in other countries, but here are a couple things i dug up after me and sooners tete a tete( I know it needs the marks above the e's and a' just didnt look up how to do it). I also want to say, I know American healthcare could use reform, hell NEEDS reform, but Socialised healthcare hasn't convinced me it's the answer. here are my "findings" : The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care by David Gratzer, City Journal Summer 2007 some excerpts from the above article: •Mountain-bike enthusiast Suzanne Aucoin had to fight more than her Stage IV colon cancer. Her doctor suggested Erbitux—a proven cancer drug that targets cancer cells exclusively, unlike conventional chemotherapies that more crudely kill all fast-growing cells in the body—and Aucoin went to a clinic to begin treatment. But if Erbitux offered hope, Aucoin’s insurance didn’t: she received one inscrutable form letter after another, rejecting her claim for reimbursement. Yet another example of the callous hand of managed care, depriving someone of needed medical help, right? Guess again. Erbitux is standard treatment, covered by insurance companies—in the United States. Aucoin lives in Ontario, Canada. •In The Business of Health, Robert Ohsfeldt and John Schneider factor out intentional and unintentional injuries from life-expectancy statistics and find that Americans who don’t die in car crashes or homicides outlive people in any other Western country. •And if we measure a health-care system by how well it serves its sick citizens, American medicine excels. Five-year cancer survival rates bear this out. For leukemia, the American survival rate is almost 50 percent; the European rate is just 35 percent. Esophageal carcinoma: 12 percent in the United States, 6 percent in Europe. The survival rate for prostate cancer is 81.2 percent here, yet 61.7 percent in France and down to 44.3 percent in England—a striking variation. •Baker isn’t alone: other private-sector health options are blossoming across Canada, and the government is increasingly turning a blind eye to them, too, despite their often uncertain legal status. Private clinics are opening at a rate of about one a week. Companies like MedCan now offer “corporate medicals” that include an array of diagnostic tests and a referral to Johns Hopkins, if necessary. •America is right to seek a model for delivering good health care at good prices, but we should be looking not to Canada, but close to home—in the other four-fifths or so of our economy. From telecommunications to retail, deregulation and market competition have driven prices down and quality and productivity up. Health care is long overdue for the same prescription. there are other articles just google the topic, I wont clog up the thread with more. btw, ihatethesooners, saying you arent trying to start a debate is the quickest way to start one, just saying. __________________ USSAR--has a ring to it,y'know? NOT
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04-01-2009, 05:09 PM	#9 (permalink)
rylake Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 121	I live north of Toronto, Ontario and have nothing but good experiences with the Health care system here. I have played hockey for the bulk of my life and have gotten many cuts and stitches over the years, and have always been looked after quickly and efficiently. I have never payed a cent (besides income taxes) for any of these services, but do pay for 20% of the cost of prescription drugs (which is covered by most employers at no extra cost). I had a Hernia when I was in College (from hockey again...) and had my surgery 1 week after I saw my doctor about it. Hernia surgery is not something that would be at the top of the list because it is day surgery and the condition is not life threatening. There are exceptions to everyone's personal experience with the health care system, but I think that most people would say they had a positive one. I remember when I was working for an American company and went down for Training and they went through the health care benefits for both the US and Canadian employees since it was a mixed group. The cost for an American employee was about $200-300 month, while for the Canadians it was $4.50/month with the exact same coverage (including dental). Anyways...here is a picture of the good 'ol Canadian health care systems handiwork...Total time in the ER - maybe an hour. __________________ When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. Last edited by rylake; 04-04-2009 at 03:00 PM.
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