How good/bad is your socialized health care?

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by picard102

Love our system here. Unless you get something terminal, you're probably not going to see a bill.

Dental and vision just went out the door recently though, and that shit is expensive. I can see how you could go into massive debt if you didn't have insurance.

Supplemental private insurance?

[Rock 'n' Rye]

As a lower socio-economic youth (no income, under 25, single parent family) It's a life saver, though I go years without need of the medical system it's come in very handy when something goes down the shita.

[ihatethesooners]

Just for comparison's sake, here is my situation.

I'm under 30 years old and have had no major medical problems, with the exception of an appendectomy when I was 14 years old.

I carry private insurance myself. I pay just about $100 a month. If I need to go to the doctor, I pay all costs out of pocket. The last time I went to the doctor was about a year ago to see about getting my nagging lower back pain looked at. The doctor recommended an MRI. I passed on that, seeing as how it would cost me about $2,000. This is not feasible for me. The office visit itself cost me around $230. My prescriptions, 800 mg Ibuprofen and 10 mg Flexeril, cost me about $4 and $8, respectively.

My insurance is basically only there for catastrophic coverage. I pay all costs myself until I reach $3,500 in a calendar year, which is why my monthly premium is so low. Then my coverage would kick in and cover me up to about $4 million. There are, of course, all manner of caveats and loopholes to this coverage. I would also be responsible for the $3,500 if my medical needs stretched into a new calendar year. Any thing outside of a GP must go through the insurance company before I can see a specialist, and then I must see their approved doctors. If I wanted to see a doctor outside the system there would be paperwork which would likely delay treatment at the least a week or two.

Working in a privately-owned company, I get no assistance from my employer, excluding of course workman's compensation, which would cover and injuries incurred while on the job. My private insurance also does not cover vision or dental. I have not been to the dentist in over 2 years and I honestly can't remember the cost of that visit, though I'm positive it was over $125 (luckily I went every six months when I was covered under my parents insurance, so my teeth are still very healthy. Never even had a cavity.) I have been to the optometrist once since I was in high school. That visit, about 3 years ago, cost me roughly $300 for the exam and a new pair of glasses.

I honestly don't think of my insurance as 'health' insurance. I consider it 'bankruptcy' insurance. I'm basically paying $100 a month so that if I were in a car wreck, or was diagnosed with cancer, or something similar, I would not be financially ruined (I hope) trying to get myself treated.

[Mr. Bean]

when I got married in England I had a persistent fungal ear infection. I ended up going to the A&E for free, with a total wait time of a half hour total wheat time was a half hour. the next day due to pain I was at my wife's primary care physician. I am not a UK citizen, I was not married to a UK citizen at the time, however, the doctor saw me right away way, time in the waiting room was about an hour. I get that kind of wait here in America with my doctor. I ended up walking away from the primary care and the ER with a total of four different prescriptions which cost me about a total of 16 pounds. I love the English health care system. Oh, and the doctor and the A&E was free.

[dzagama]

I'm reserving judgement on UH, for now, but EconTalk has some great episodes regarding the issue:

EconTalk | Library of Economics and Liberty

This week's episode, 'Brink Lindsey on the Age of Abundance', has a nice bit about people's reasoning when a disconnect is made between a subsidized service, and payment of said service through taxation.

[dzagama]

DUUUUPE!

[Forbin]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Help me understand "couldn't get" a little better. Was it not available to her for a specific reason?

She saw multiple doctors and was given multiple excuses, here's a selection. The injury hadn't happened long enough ago to be considered complex chronic. The injury happened so long ago that you should have sought treatment at the time. Since you've had the problem so long and you're not dead, it's elective. Finally, since you're no longer under the same insurer, it's a pre-existing condition. I gather that this is quite typical; we encountered just wave after wave of preconditions and beurocracy aimed at avoiding dispensing treatment. It's worth noting that she's from Texas and the laws regarding health insurers are quite lax there. We may have had different luck if we tried in where we live now, in Massachusetts.

Eventually we may have gotten rich enough to pay full private but accoriding to the orthopedist in England, it would have continued to degenerate. I don't know the surgeons name but he was 'the joint guy' at the teaching hospital associated with Oxford University medical school so I guess he was known to be quite good. He said that she was sent to him because the condition was so advanced. So we forgave them the long wait, on account of the surgeon probably was booked a long way in advance. I doubt we ever could have afforded the services in America on anybody so skilled. We certainly couldn't have afforded his private fee in England, and fees are lower there I think.

For anybody interested, the problem was rough scar tissue built up and wearing away the cartlidge and destabilizing the joint. Progressive ligament damage would cause more scar tissue and the whole thing was a vicious circle. All he did was remove the scar tissue with keyhole surgery and the ankle finally healed after 10 years.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Forbin

She saw multiple doctors and was given multiple excuses, here's a selection. The injury hadn't happened long enough ago to be considered complex chronic. The injury happened so long ago that you should have sought treatment at the time. Since you've had the problem so long and you're not dead, it's elective. Finally, since you're no longer under the same insurer, it's a pre-existing condition. I gather that this is quite typical; we encountered just wave after wave of preconditions and beurocracy aimed at avoiding dispensing treatment. It's worth noting that she's from Texas and the laws regarding health insurers are quite lax there. We may have had different luck if we tried in where we live now, in Massachusetts.

Eventually we may have gotten rich enough to pay full private but accoriding to the orthopedist in England, it would have continued to degenerate. I don't know the surgeons name but he was 'the joint guy' at the teaching hospital associated with Oxford University medical school so I guess he was known to be quite good. He said that she was sent to him because the condition was so advanced. So we forgave them the long wait, on account of the surgeon probably was booked a long way in advance. I doubt we ever could have afforded the services in America on anybody so skilled. We certainly couldn't have afforded his private fee in England, and fees are lower there I think.

For anybody interested, the problem was rough scar tissue built up and wearing away the cartlidge and destabilizing the joint. Progressive ligament damage would cause more scar tissue and the whole thing was a vicious circle. All he did was remove the scar tissue with keyhole surgery and the ankle finally healed after 10 years.

So where was the break point between getting it treated right away, and it becoming a "pre-existing" condition?

FYI, for a PM conversation, where in MA?

[Forbin]

Originally Posted by John Galt

So where was the break point between getting it treated right away, and it becoming a "pre-existing" condition?

FYI, for a PM conversation, where in MA?

The pre-exisiting condition thing happened because she changed insurance, having gotten to old to be included on her parents insurance. To get all conspiracy theory about it, I reckon the insurance adjuster knew that she was getting close to the age that she'd have to come off here parents insurance and so they just put her off and ran her round in circles until she wasn't their problem any more. Probably got a big fat bonus for doing so.

To be honest, I'm a bit surprised by your question. Surely you don't honestly believe that the application of logic and sound rhetorical skills are effective when dealing with beurocrats in larger corporate organizations?

[imezru]

Originally Posted by picard102

Love our system here. Unless you get something terminal, you're probably not going to see a bill.

Dental and vision just went out the door recently though, and that shit is expensive. I can see how you could go into massive debt if you didn't have insurance.

To the best of my knowledge OHIP never covered regular dental care like cleanings and such. Vision and chiropratic did get de-listed a few years ago.

Actually I believe Mcginty listed dental coverage for lower income earners for the first time because of studies linking a multitude of diseases that originate from bad dental hygene.