how much do you 'owe' the RIAA?

[j2x]

I am a professional architect. I draw pretty houses, mostly for clients in China.



This is as much art as it is professional understanding of construction, materials, and the client.

Yes, I expect to get paid for the time I spend working on a design. However, me and the company I work for know full well that most of the drawings we send to China are going to be copied. Literally, the drawings we produce will be used to build other projects. This is the nature of our industry and we fight it by staying ahead of our competition.

When the economy started to tank two years ago a lot of our competition, other medium to large production architecture firms based out of southern california, many of them collapsed. They weren't able to stay flexible in this challenging market. Our Chinese clients started doing more work in-house (ie: duplicating work we had produced).

The only way we were able to stay around (albeit at a fraction of our size) is to continually produce new designs that are in demand. That is the only way we can continue to receive new business- by staying inventive and accepting the industry and the world for what it is.

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by j2x

I am a professional architect. I draw pretty houses, mostly for clients in China.



This is as much art as it is professional understanding of construction, materials, and the client.

Yes, I expect to get paid for the time I spend working on a design. However, me and the company I work for know full well that most of the drawings we send to China are going to be copied. Literally, the drawings we produce will be used to build other projects. This is the nature of our industry and we fight it by staying ahead of our competition.

When the economy started to tank two years ago a lot of our competition, other medium to large production architecture firms based out of southern california, many of them collapsed. They weren't able to stay flexible in this challenging market. Our Chinese clients started doing more work in-house (ie: duplicating work we had produced).

The only way we were able to stay around (albeit at a fraction of our size) is to continually produce new designs that are in demand. That is the only way we can continue to receive new business- by staying inventive and accepting the industry and the world for what it is.

This echos what you've said before: that you recognize that theft, in some cases, is inevitable, or at least wide-spread.

But surely you can agree that, if you want to get paid for your designs, you should be paid, and they should not be stolen?

Your situation does mirror that of much art, and the coping mechanisms artists are using to deal with theft. Whether or not they can recoup their losses is not the issue, though; if someone creates a unique work, it should be theirs to distribute, and dictate how it is distributed.

[j2x]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

This echos what you've said before: that you recognize that theft, in some cases, is inevitable, or at least wide-spread.

But surely you can agree that, if you want to get paid for your designs, you should be paid, and they should not be stolen?

Your situation does mirror that of much art, and the coping mechanisms artists are using to deal with theft. Whether or not they can recoup their losses is not the issue, though; if someone creates a unique work, it should be theirs to distribute, and dictate how it is distributed.

living in an ideal world, yes, I agree that if work has value, it should be paid for. The company I work for is still, more than a year after the work was done, trying to get paid by the developer who hired us. Theft and graft is a sociological inevitability. We must market ourselves such that we earn a fair wage despite it.

Absolutely, I should be paid for my work, but I wouldn't suffer if you "stole" my designs and gave them away to low-income developers to re-use because they aren't my market in the first place and by taking from me you wouldn't actually be taking any money out of my pocket. Now, if you made a profit by distributing my stolen work, I will find and kill you.

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by j2x

living in an ideal world, yes, I agree that if work has value, it should be paid for.

Boom. That's my point.

People who do not have the ability to recognize that are deluded and, as I have said, have never created anything of value.

Anyone who strives to do any good will either 1) do the right thing and not steal art that is being sold, or 2) admit that they are wrong by stealing.

Yoav is the only person who disagrees with me on that point and, even as much as I piss you off, you still agree he is wrong in that regard.

[j2x]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

as much as I piss you off, you still agree he is wrong in that regard.

and even as much as I think you're a terrible arguer and a despicable human being, based on the persona that you've created for yourself on the forum, I do share your opinion that work should be compensated for.

Now that we have that uncomfortable hug out of the way, will you agree that there is enough impetus to change the system that eliminates the publisher so that artists can get paid fairly and consumers can enjoy their music without fear of prosecution?

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by j2x

and even as much as I think you're a terrible arguer and a despicable human being, based on the persona that you've created for yourself on the forum, I do share your opinion that work should be compensated for.

I don't really give a shit if you think I'm a terrible "arguer", because I've bested you every single time.

You simply do not like that I don't talk to thieves and morons respectfully, and that's something I will never do.

Originally Posted by j2x

Now that we have that uncomfortable hug out of the way, will you agree that there is enough impetus to change the system that eliminates the publisher so that artists can get paid fairly and consumers can enjoy their music without fear of prosecution?

I don't think we'll ever see a day when record labels don't exist, but there is sufficient reason to destroy the major record labels and break up the RIAA.

Regardless, I don't much care about the business end of things. My concern is how the consumer treats the artist, and that's it. The business end is important, just not something I feel strongly about.

[MaxxedMan]

How many people have strong feelings about this topic, and how many people are just fucking with Bob seeing if his head will explode?

He Bob, steeling from musicians is a right and not a privileged.

(Everyone stand back, here's a garbage bag)

[j2x]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

Regardless, I don't much care about the business end of things. My concern is how the consumer treats the artist, and that's it. The business end is important, just not something I feel strongly about.

I would bet that if the business end (supply) changed to reflect the consumer's desires (demand) a much more equitable system would arise. I believe, as yoav tried to say, those who steal do so because it's more convenient. I think few people set out to be thieves, it's just something that they do because they have been disenfranchised from the system. I can imagine a system where an artist would be paid fairly for their work and where the consumer wouldn't feel like they had to steal.