how much do you 'owe' the RIAA?

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by ThisIsMyUserName

But my point is that I don't think CD's are worth the price. As a kid I made tapes of everything on the radio, when we could download stuff I moved to that. CD's have always been a last desperate resort and usually only when they're heavily discounted or something. I actually can't think of a CD I've ever paid full price for.

CD prices are pretty close to digital copies of the same quality.

Sure, it might be cheaper to get 192kbps copies, but a CD gives you the real shit and a physical backup.

But regardless, if CDs aren't worth the price and you can't find a distribution method that suits you, that doesn't give you the right to take it. You just can't have it.

[j2x]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

This echos what you've said before: that you recognize that theft, in some cases, is inevitable, or at least wide-spread.

But surely you can agree that, if you want to get paid for your designs, you should be paid, and they should not be stolen?

Your situation does mirror that of much art, and the coping mechanisms artists are using to deal with theft. Whether or not they can recoup their losses is not the issue, though; if someone creates a unique work, it should be theirs to distribute, and dictate how it is distributed.

living in an ideal world, yes, I agree that if work has value, it should be paid for. The company I work for is still, more than a year after the work was done, trying to get paid by the developer who hired us. Theft and graft is a sociological inevitability. We must market ourselves such that we earn a fair wage despite it.

Absolutely, I should be paid for my work, but I wouldn't suffer if you "stole" my designs and gave them away to low-income developers to re-use because they aren't my market in the first place and by taking from me you wouldn't actually be taking any money out of my pocket. Now, if you made a profit by distributing my stolen work, I will find and kill you.

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by j2x

living in an ideal world, yes, I agree that if work has value, it should be paid for.

Boom. That's my point.

People who do not have the ability to recognize that are deluded and, as I have said, have never created anything of value.

Anyone who strives to do any good will either 1) do the right thing and not steal art that is being sold, or 2) admit that they are wrong by stealing.

Yoav is the only person who disagrees with me on that point and, even as much as I piss you off, you still agree he is wrong in that regard.

[yoav]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

20. It's not just for the old folks.

That's all you need. Rip it to your computer and you have DRM free copies. Which, as I have stated before, is somewhere that I disagree with current copyright law, and find to be ethically sound.

oh you're 20, internet troll motives confirmed.

btw, you just contradicted yourself, you see, you're very anti theft as defined by the riaa. yet, in the statement above you condone theft yourself because it's in line with your ethics. making a digital copy = making a digital copy, you're a pirate and a thief, in fact you're just as much a thief as i am because you're ok with ripping cds. i knew you were a hypocrit and you just admitted it. case closed. i'm done playing into your trolling, although i do appreciate it up to this point as it pushed me to refine and express my own ideas and form a solid argument.

you should definitely check out the porn thread, it's a stand up thread. you're missing out.

Originally Posted by j2x

I am a professional architect. I draw pretty houses, mostly for clients in China.

that's gorgeous.

as for me i'm a web developer. the code i write is available for anyone to use, if you're on firefox just press ctrl+u(apple+u if you're on a mac), in fact taking bits of copyrighted websites is how new developers learn. it's an accepted practice and encouraged.

i also have a blog where i post poetry, industry stuff like code and techniques (us developers pass on our knowledge to strangers because knowledge has no intrinsic value and spreading it only encourages industry growth), drawings and other interesting stuff all cc licensed so take what you want. i'm not as talented as j2x but i like to practice for when i have to design a ui, logo, etc.. here is some of that from my blog:

hi-res links:
http://fightskillz.com/wp-content/up...7/sketch-1.png
http://fightskillz.com/wp-content/up...06d0f8beb.jpeg
http://fightskillz.com/wp-content/up...dwalk_orig.png
http://fightskillz.com/wp-content/up...ne-the-dog.png
http://fightskillz.com/wp-content/up...tivechoker.png

attached low-res versions below, i'm also a musician(guitar, drums, alto/tenor sax, piano) i only ever recorded stuff for fun because i never had any rockstar ambitions and it's been a while but i've jammed with a lot of friends/musicians over the years, performed publicly and supported the local music scene.

no artist aspires to be part of the riaa, they're a lobby group set up by record labels. artists care about art, and especially new up and coming artists care about getting their sound to as many ears as possible, they sell merch and cds at their shows so people have an avenue to support them directly, they put their songs up on myspace to be downloaded for free. if they were more tech savvy they would torrent their stuff too.

the common goal of everyone i know is to sell out a big stadium, not to make 2 cents on the album and make a record label lots of money so they can sue small children and old people.

fuck bob, he's a cunt and a persistent illiterate ignoramus. and fuck the riaa who's ideals he upholds while trolling internet sites. long live katg for making this imaginary online space and this conversation possible. and thanks to everyone who participated it's been riveting.
ooh hey there's a live show in 03 minutes.

[cbooty]

checkmate!

[j2x]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

as much as I piss you off, you still agree he is wrong in that regard.

and even as much as I think you're a terrible arguer and a despicable human being, based on the persona that you've created for yourself on the forum, I do share your opinion that work should be compensated for.

Now that we have that uncomfortable hug out of the way, will you agree that there is enough impetus to change the system that eliminates the publisher so that artists can get paid fairly and consumers can enjoy their music without fear of prosecution?

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by yoav

oh you're 20, internet troll motives confirmed.

Aren't you cute.

Originally Posted by yoav

btw, you just contradicted yourself, you see, you're very anti theft as defined by the riaa. yet, in the statement above you condone theft yourself because it's in line with your ethics. making a digital copy = making a digital copy, you're a pirate and a thief, in fact you're just as much a thief as i am because you're ok with ripping cds. i knew you were a hypocrit and you just admitted it. case closed. i'm done playing into your trolling, although i do appreciate it up to this point as it pushed me to refine and express my own ideas and form a solid argument.

Wow, you're a fucking idiot.

There's a difference between making a personal copy of content you paid for and downloading content you never paid for.

I'm not quibbling about the method you listen to something, I have a problem with you obtaining art through whatever means without paying for it.

You're still trying to make fringe elements of copyright infringement laws the issue, when I have stated TIME AND TIME AGAIN that is not what I'm talking about.

Are you 5 years old? Because that's the only age that would explain your inability to read.

Originally Posted by yoav

you should definitely check out the porn thread, it's a stand up thread. you're missing out.

No thanks.

Originally Posted by yoav

as for me i'm a web developer. the code i write is available for anyone to use, if you're on firefox just press ctrl+u(apple+u if you're on a mac), in fact taking bits of copyrighted websites is how new developers learn. it's an accepted practice and encouraged.

i also have a blog where i post poetry, industry stuff like code and techniques (us developers pass on our knowledge to strangers because knowledge has no intrinsic value and spreading it only encourages industry growth), drawings and other interesting stuff all cc licensed so take what you want. i'm not as talented as j2x but i like to practice for when i have to design a ui, logo, etc.. here is some of that from my blog:

hi-res links:
http://fightskillz.com/wp-content/up...7/sketch-1.png
http://fightskillz.com/wp-content/up...06d0f8beb.jpeg
http://fightskillz.com/wp-content/up...dwalk_orig.png
http://fightskillz.com/wp-content/up...ne-the-dog.png
http://fightskillz.com/wp-content/up...tivechoker.png

attached low-res versions below, i'm also a musician(guitar, drums, alto/tenor sax, piano) i only ever recorded stuff for fun because i never had any rockstar ambitions and it's been a while but i've jammed with a lot of friends/musicians over the years, performed publicly and supported the local music scene.

no artist aspires to be part of the riaa, they're a lobby group set up by record labels. artists care about art, and especially new up and coming artists care about getting their sound to as many ears as possible, they sell merch and cds at their shows so people have an avenue to support them directly, they put their songs up on myspace to be downloaded for free. if they were more tech savvy they would torrent their stuff too.

the common goal of everyone i know is to sell out a big stadium, not to make 2 cents on the album and make a record label lots of money so they can sue small children and old people.

fuck bob, he's a cunt and a persistent illiterate ignoramus. and fuck the riaa who's ideals he upholds while trolling internet sites. long live katg for making this imaginary online space and this conversation possible. and thanks to everyone who participated it's been riveting.
ooh hey there's a live show in 03 minutes.

And here you rant against the RIAA again, but completely avoid anything I talked about.

Since you've resorted to avoiding what I'm talking about altogether and lying, I will take that as admission of defeat.

You have barely done anything musically, and even you can't flat out say people shouldn't be paid for the music they make.

For all your blustering, you can only give me a handful of artists who agree with you.

You are a thief, plain and simple. You're the only person here who thinks you aren't.

[j2x]

Originally Posted by yoav

you should definitely check out the porn thread, it's a stand up thread. you're missing out.

i concur! T&A is far less controversial, too.

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by j2x

and even as much as I think you're a terrible arguer and a despicable human being, based on the persona that you've created for yourself on the forum, I do share your opinion that work should be compensated for.

I don't really give a shit if you think I'm a terrible "arguer", because I've bested you every single time.

You simply do not like that I don't talk to thieves and morons respectfully, and that's something I will never do.

Originally Posted by j2x

Now that we have that uncomfortable hug out of the way, will you agree that there is enough impetus to change the system that eliminates the publisher so that artists can get paid fairly and consumers can enjoy their music without fear of prosecution?

I don't think we'll ever see a day when record labels don't exist, but there is sufficient reason to destroy the major record labels and break up the RIAA.

Regardless, I don't much care about the business end of things. My concern is how the consumer treats the artist, and that's it. The business end is important, just not something I feel strongly about.

[MaxxedMan]

How many people have strong feelings about this topic, and how many people are just fucking with Bob seeing if his head will explode?

He Bob, steeling from musicians is a right and not a privileged.

(Everyone stand back, here's a garbage bag)