I hate the Amish, why the fuck are they allowed to vote?

[fluxquanta]

We actually have quite a large Amish community in upstate New York as well, but the only real trouble they've caused is running their buggies at night without proper lighting (or those slow moving vehicle signs), and then get hit by cars. Luckily if there is an injury or a fatality they don't usually press charges, but the car's driver still has to live with it.

The Natives, too, have tax-exempt status, and cards to use off the reservation. The latest thing has been that the New York government wants to tax tobacco sales on reservations, and the "rez" near me has had a fit over it. New York has, I believe, the second highest tax on cigarettes in the country (it's over $10/pack in most places), and a lot of people will go to the reservation and buy by the carton. They had to roll in the National Guard over that one a couple of months ago, and the government backed off on the tax idea, for now.

[mcbane89]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

I think the point was they're voting on laws they aren't living by.

It seems pretty basic to me to require people to live by our laws before they can vote in our system. Our Constitution says every citizen of this nation can vote on its government, but it also says every citizen has to live by the goddamn rules. You don't get to pick one and leave the other.

Except for when the government gives them tax exempt status, and says they can.

[DudeEMETIB]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

You don't get to pick one and leave the other.

I like the way you said that, intentionally or not. It implies that you also cannot be a citizen here, even if abiding by the laws, without voting. I like that. FUCKING VOTE YOU IDIOTS!

[Rhian]

Last week was municipal elections here, and I wasn't able to vote because I am now housebound and can't get around at all on my own. I was PISSED that there wasn't more help for me to vote, even a proxy was impossible to do since I still had to get to the other end of the city to sign 5 papers in front of the city clerk. Umm yeah, defeats the purpose.

A bit non-seq, but VOTE!

[picard102]

I saw we murder them all. Amish and Indians.

[DWarrior]

In 1961, the United States Internal Revenue Service announced that since the Amish refuse Social Security benefits and have a religious objection to insurance, they need not pay these taxes. In 1965, this policy was codified into law.[80] Self-employed individuals in certain sects do not pay into, nor receive benefits from, United States Social Security, nor do their similarly exempt employees. Internal Revenue Service form 4029 grants this exemption to members of a religious group that is conscientiously opposed to accepting benefits of any private or public insurance, provides a reasonable level of living for its dependent members and has existed continuously since December 31, 1950.[81] A visible sign of the care Amish provide for the elderly is the smaller Grossdaadi Heiser or Daadiheiser ("grandfather house"), often built near the main dwelling. Amish employees of non-Amish employers are taxed, but they do not apply for benefits.[82] Aside from Social Security and workers' compensation, American Amish pay all required taxes.[83]

So what the fuck? Besides, who fucking gives a shit. Who votes? They can have my right to vote, I'm not using it anyway.

[picard102]

Originally Posted by mowzie

They absolutely deserve the right to vote.

Not when they continually assert they are their own nation and want to be self governed as such.

Reserves and tax exemptions should be abolished. You live here you play by the same rules as everyone else.

[fluxquanta]

Originally Posted by mowzie

This is not true at all, they have some tax exemptions based on whether they live on or off reserve, and if their reserve chooses to charge sales tax, but it is wholly false to say that they pay no taxes at all. They absolutely deserve the right to vote, and the pervasiveness of this misinformation is really worrisome.

The reservation I live right to does not. At all. No sales, no property, no school, nothing. They carry exempt cards. They flip out every time the US or Canadian government proposes taxing anything related to them. This is 100% fact.

Originally Posted by picard102

Not when they continually assert they are their own nation and want to be self governed as such.

Reserves and tax exemptions should be abolished. You live here you play by the same rules as everyone else.

Thank you.

[fluxquanta]

Originally Posted by mowzie

are you being harmed by whatever limited special treatment they receive? Likely not

As I mentioned, many small businesses up here ARE harmed, because if they can get an equivalent product on the reservation without paying tax, they'll go. Businesses adjacent to the rez lose business, and lose money, and then we all lose money from the lack of tax revenue.

Originally Posted by mowzie

these rights are hugely beneficial to them for their psychological and emotional healing. The legacy of the 'white man's' treatment of Aboriginal people still persists, it is WHY there is such rampant drug use on reserves, violence, crime, etc.

I completely disagree, but I won't get into it. As you said, I won't be convincing you of anything.

I think the most potent point that has been made is this claim of "self governance" and that they say they're an "independent nation". You seriously want to be an independent nation? Prepare for a really fucking rude awakening.

[picard102]

Originally Posted by mowzie

They do live here, but our society has been imposed on them.

I was born here just like they were. Just like many other people with distinct cultural backgrounds who's ancestors immigrated here.

They are no more special then You, I or anyone else born in this country.

Originally Posted by mowzie

Quebec

They need to get on board as well. It's amazing that even though they lost the war they still act as if they didn't.

Originally Posted by mowzie

They are not seeking national autonomy.

They tried too and it was a real threat to the country. Their own federal party suggest to me that they would try again.