what age did you stop beleaving in the religion you where raised with?

[dzagama]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

This is why I promote Thomas Paine's idea of Deism. He writes that reason is the greatest gift of God, that science is learning the magnificence of God, and that the world itself makes any text that purports to be The Word redundant.

I cannot possibly see how Christianity is equally as healthy and reasonable as that religion.

I haven't read Paine's works, but that's the modus operandi of every physicist I've ever met. That's why I find it amusing when people cite stats saying that those in the sciences tend to atheistic. Not quite true. In the sciences, one develops their own concept of god and meaning that transcends anything that common faiths put forth. Most scientists say 'atheist' because popular theism is repulsive.

I believe Einstein believed in Spinoza's god. That's something I can agree with. 'god' is merely a pretty idea to keep in mind while uncovering real truth.

[Cretaceous Bob]

I think the problem is an idea of god formulated through scientific knowledge inherently leads one away from Judeo-Christian beliefs, though not from theism, and so the aggressive factions of atheists and Judeo-Christian followers trample right over the facts and stifle the concept entirely, weaponizing whatever elements they can to combat the opposing camp.

[Sparrow]

Within Deism, what IS God? Is it outside space/time? What's its nature and role?

[dzagama]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

I think the problem is an idea of god formulated through scientific knowledge inherently leads one away from Judeo-Christian beliefs, though not from theism, and so the aggressive factions of atheists and Judeo-Christian followers trample right over the facts and stifle the concept entirely, weaponizing whatever elements they can to combat the opposing camp.

Yup, like I said in another thread, I'm not a proponent of 'god', but atheism is nothing but a reaction to theism. The true state of man (and everything) will probably be agnostic (in the strictest sense) until the end of ends.

With that said, I don't see anything limiting human beings from knowing everything 'god' knows. We just have to give ourselves time.

[Leixes]

Religion is a cultural virus. It's an opportunistic disease that infects culturally deficient individuals.

[dzagama]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Within Deism, what IS God? It is outside space/time? What's its nature and role?

Unfortunately, the best answer I have to this specific question is a nebulous, eastern-philosophical sort of one. 'god' is what you want it to be.

For me, 'god' is just a way for me to rationalize the unknown. However, I differentiate between the unknown and the unknowable. Nothing, to me, is unknowable.

I like coming up with lists of 'gods' as theoretical constructs. 'god' is the initial observer in quantum mechanics. 'god' is an asymptotic limit to human intelligence. 'god' is the electromagnetic force.

Of course, this is just for my amusement, not worship. I chose to 'worship' by trying to know previously unknown things.

[dzagama]

Originally Posted by Leixes

Religion is a cultural virus. It's an opportunistic disease that infects culturally deficient individuals.

Yay! Reunion!

[Leixes]

Originally Posted by dzagama

Yay! Reunion!

Did you see that waitress. She had a nice piece of ass!

[dzagama]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Within Deism, what IS God? Is it outside space/time? What's its nature and role?

Another reply. If you *did* know the true nature of 'god', would you recognize it? Would you accept it? Would it coincide with your expectations? What if it was quite ordinary?

I think the first step to understanding 'god' is to understand the being asking the question. We are humans, so we ask these sort of questions embedded in a social and cultural context. It seems the first step would be to step outside this context. Monks do this with isolation and meditation. I think I did it once with a psychedelic.

But by saying that last sentence, in the eyes of some, I've completely destroyed the validity of my previous statements.

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by dzagama

Yup, like I said in another thread, I'm not a proponent of 'god', but atheism is nothing but a reaction to theism. The true state of man (and everything) will probably be agnostic (in the strictest sense) until the end of ends.

With that said, I don't see anything limiting human beings from knowing everything 'god' knows. We just have to give ourselves time.

I do think all views on God should be regarded as theories, and agnosticism should be recognized as reality.

The assertion that to gain knowledge is to emulate God is a poisonous concept. As Paine wrote, "In the same manner as it may be said, that man can make a triangle, so also may it be said, he can make the mechanical instrument, called a lever. But the principle by which the lever acts, is a thing distinct from the instrument, and would exist if the instrument did not: it attaches itself to the instrument after it is made; the instrument therefore can act no otherwise than it does act; neither can all the effort of human invention make it act otherwise."

That is an important distinction that needs to be more widely known. We could not act as God no matter how hard we try, so there is no reason to limit ourselves.

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Within Deism, what IS God? Is it outside space/time? What's its nature and role?

Thomas Paine's Deism, and the popular concept of Deism in the late 18th century, is a monotheistic religion that believes there is a benevolent god who has constructed the universe in a way that will naturally teach us and provide for us. It's very similar to the popular interpretation of Christianity that isn't very Christian at all, which is the belief that God has constructed the world and then stepped away from his creation, letting it do its thing.