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Old 03-24-2022, 05:05 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: western society
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Originally Posted by Steph View Post
So I try to be cautious about claiming I am "not transphobic" because I am aware that my conditioning makes that almost impossible. There were some ideas I heard discussed on this show that strike me as possibly transphobic. The basic one is the belief that there are 2 types of bodies, male and female, and male bodies have penises and testicles and female bodies have vaginas, ovaries, etc. This is what we were taught as children but it is not scientifically accurate ( It is an oversimplification of the diversity of human biology into 2 simple categories because human brains like to make things as simple as possible in order to conserve brain energy. If you believe a trans woman is someone who is born a male and becomes a female, that is transphobic. A trans woman is a woman born with a body that the majority of women don't have.
SCIAm is neither Scientific nor American to start. The idea that they can point to a tiny population of physical birth defects in no way undoes 2 billion or 500 million years of evolution of binary sex differentiation, depending on how technical you want to get with your definitions. This is none sense masquerading as science. Further failings of the current epidemic of sophistry. This is the same as saying because some people are born with sexual dysmorphia the human brain has no sex differentiation.

The human mind has amazing capacity for nuance and to act like it is human's inability to understand categorization beyond binary is the reason for all of mammalian history is atrociously lazy.

Originally Posted by Steph View Post
If you have children, do you raise them knowing that boys can have vaginas have girls can have penises? If not, then you probably have transphobic ideas.
Nope, you are just not brain washed for Moral Signalling at the expense of your children's health.

Originally Posted by Steph View Post
I think medical experts and swimming experts get to decide this one. Maybe there needs to be more than 2 categories to compete in, cisgender men, cisgender women, transgender men, transgender women, and intersex people? I don't know, I think sports competitions are really stupid and I kind of hate them, so the whole thing seems rather ridiculous to me. I loved Myq's recapping of the point that there should be an Olympic category called "tallest." Whatever traits you happen to be born with are pretty fucking random and if society happens to reward you for them during the 80ish years you by chance got to be alive, then just be grateful and stop thinking you are something special. It's all so very random.
Medical experts have decided like thousands of years ago. As for having additional divisions that is totally up to NCAA to divide further to whatever extent they see feasible but already carrying women's sport is run at a substantial loss so adding additional divisions I don't see unless for purely political reasons but if there are enough people to participate in trans divisions then I see no reason at all to not proceed if Universities want to raise tuitions and move scholarships etc around to make that happen. Heck in certain states they already have tax funded programs for the universities that they could piggy back this pet issues costs directly to tax payers and cut out the middleman of having people attending the university footing the bill.

Originally Posted by marykae View Post
When Keith was talking about Lia's swim record as a male he missed something really important. This is understandable because the red hats are pushing this narrative on purpose.

She was doing really well as a male UNTIL she started her hormone therapy. The results Keith read were podt hormones.

Several sources on the web state that while she won, she broke no records and her time is right on par with cis women.

Look around at who you get your information from. It can be really dangerous to spread incorrect information about trans people.

Was grateful it was Myq on this episode.
Source on red hats pushing the narrative? Seems when he got to 500ish place was a month before he announced transitioning and 12 months before test suppression therapy reportedly started, after 2019 season? Please advise.

"In March 2022, Thomas became the first openly transgender athlete to win an NCAA Division I national championship in any sport, after winning the women's 500-yard freestyle with a time of 4:33.24; Olympic silver medalist Emma Weyant was second with a time 1.75 seconds behind Thomas.[19][20][21] Thomas was 9.18 seconds short of Katie Ledecky’s NCAA record of 4:24.06.[22]"

Agree she only one first place in the national championship, didn't set a world record. Not sure why she needs to set a record for it to be unfair advantage? Which is same point to Myk's point that others have transitioned and not won national champs etc., just means they started with unfair advantage but either wasn't enough or other factors were at play. Everyone forgets about Laurel Hubbard here too. Please advise.

Originally Posted by Apia resurrected View Post
I get all your points. And I’m not invested in sports.
Still, the build of the body is one of the reasons for success. And the body size was influenced by the hormones from before the transition.
One of the reasons! That’s why hard to say how much of a role it plays.

I have no idea how to adjust for this. Because, where should trans athletes compete? Other possibilities seem worse. The idea with extra categories seem also problematic, it would say they aren’t “real women” this sounds discriminatory. But I really don’t know!

I’m going back to not caring about sports.
Everyone is very worried about the body differences (which are huge) but agree with Apia here that the total picture of differences is far greater than just the body differences. To actually level the playing field from a male to compete with a female we would not only have to block testosterone, up regulate aromatase of estrogen, administer exogenous estrogen and progesterone cyclically, surgically reshape, shorten and thin all bones, tendons and ligaments, chemically remove androgen receptor sites and dopamenergic signalling pathways, etc. etc for the physical but we would also probably have to remove clumps of brain function sites and replacing them with other clumps from cadaverous that have synaptic connections that were female in areas of spacial awareness, behavior, spacial modeling, etc etc.

Extra categories discussed above.

Last edited by nordcharonmir; 03-24-2022 at 05:12 PM.
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