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Old 01-17-2013, 08:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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37: Gun Control

Minister, talk show host, and Chemda's potential father-in-law, Ron Winckler, talks about owning multiple guns in America.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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what i dont understand about this whole situation is that if anyone tried to attack any other amendment in the constitution everyone would be pissed off. What if the government said free speech is your constitutional right, but u cant talk about certain things (ie anti government ideas). Or unlawful search and seizure is banned except for when the government feels its ok.

I know criminal always seem to use the 5th amendment to their benefit. what if the government started taking away those rights? I promise you the left would be all over the president if he started taking away the criminals rights.

They expect the people just to sit back and let them do what ever they want... taking away arguably the only right we have as the people to defend ourselves against the criminals and government.

Why do i need an "assault rifle"? So when the government decides to take anymore of my rights away, i wont be defenseless against them. In my honest opinion, i dont think any weapon the military carries should be illegal for citizens to own but i understand why they are banned. I honestly think the government should give the states the rights to decide what should be banned and what shouldn't be banned. Here in Texas, we seem to have our shit under control.

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Old 01-18-2013, 12:41 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I think 39:30 shocked me the most.

You son of a bitch...

If only I was allowed to have a gun...
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:40 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
what i dont understand about this whole situation is that if anyone tried to attack any other amendment in the constitution everyone would be pissed off. What if the government said free speech is your constitutional right, but u cant talk about certain things (ie anti government ideas). Or unlawful search and seizure is banned except for when the government feels its ok.

I know criminal always seem to use the 5th amendment to their benefit. what if the government started taking away those rights? I promise you the left would be all over the president if he started taking away the criminals rights.

They expect the people just to sit back and let them do what ever they want... taking away arguably the only right we have as the people to defend ourselves against the criminals and government.

Why do i need an "assault rifle"? So when the government decides to take anymore of my rights away, i wont be defenseless against them. In my honest opinion, i dont think any weapon the military carries should be illegal for citizens to own but i understand why they are banned. I honestly think the government should give the states the rights to decide what should be banned and what shouldn't be banned. Here in Texas, we seem to have our shit under control.
You are already defenseless against them. what good protection an assault rifle would be when they could just fly a fucking drone over your house and shoot a missile into it. Also they 5th amendment is for everyone, innocent or guilty. and its for the protection of the innocent more. Here is a link that explains why everyone should use it.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:14 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Wow, I've never actually tried to speak back to my phone like I did during this episode. I disagreed with almost everything he said but it was interesting to hear a differnet point of view. The thing that bothered me the most was him saying that we should be able to dictate who can and who can't have children. Then he said that parents shouldb held responsible for the crimes of their kids. Now maybe if he said underage kids but he was talking about the Sandy Hook shooter. He was 20 years old, how the hell are his parents responsible for his actions? I know he said he was brought up in a time where kids had self responsibility. What happened to that line of thinking? Its frustrating to hear him defend the right to bear arms but then name freedoms he wants taken away.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
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What bullshit! A crazy man ran into a Bed Bath & Beyond and stabbed a woman 12 times last night. She's in critical condition in a hospital.

What if he ran in with an assault rifle? Would the results be the same?
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
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As I was listening I agreed with a lot of what Ron was saying. I grew up in rural Alberta Canada where most farmers, including my family, owns a gun. Usually something like a 22 or a 38 rifle for farming purposes. You simply need a rifle when farming to put down animals in pain or to butcher animals for personal use. Of course here, it is illegal to own an automatic weapon. All of what he said about personal responsibility really resonates with me because I grew up with this kind of respect, you just know you never point a gun at a person. You just know this stuff.

However he started loosing me when he talked about Hollywood and video games. Of course I would never say that these thing help in anyway, but I don't believe that they cause more gun violence. There are many arguments but there are two in particular that say that these things aren't the problem.

1) Simply look at other countries that aren't as lax. All first world countries have these video games and movies. Some have a even higher percentage of sales and thus a high consumption. Yet the US has more gun crimes by miles. The only explanation I can think of for this kind of thing is that EVERY other first world nation has more gun control. For example, NO AUTOMATIC WEAPONS!

2) I grew up raising and butchering most of my own meat. I still do it to this day despite living in town. I do this because the meat tastes better, its cheaper, and I know the animals lived good lives. I know a lot of people who've played FAR more violent video games than I have. Yet everyone one of them I know who've butchered an animal in later life end up swearing off meat till they can forget about what it's actually like to kill and cut up an animal. The point I'm making here is that obviously the killing of animals and people in videogames and watching it on tv didn't desensitize them to the reality.

Now maybe violent media does affect that small percentage who are mentally ill. That's a fair assumption to make. However looking at other countries its pretty clear that limiting and controlling guns DOES work.

Last edited by Electric Squirrel; 01-18-2013 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Im at the part in the show where he is talking about video games and i had to type this. here are some facts. all these figures are total gun related deaths including suicides homicides and accidental shootings all from gunpolicy.org.

Japan:
2008: 11
2002: 47
2001: 56
1997: 34
1996: 36
1995: 42

Australia:
2010: 30
2009: 36
2008: 27
2007: 28
2006: 41
2005: 15
2004: 15
2003: 54
2002: 45
2001: 47
2000: 57
1999: 50
1998: 57
1997: 79
1996: 104
1995: 67

U.K:
2010: 155

USA
2011: 32,163
2010: 31,672
2009: 31,347
2008: 31,593
2007: 31,224
2006: 30,896
2005: 30,694
2004: 29,569
2003: 30,136
2002: 30,242
2001: 29,573
2000: 28,663
1999: 28,874

But i guess no one plays video games or watching movies outside of the USA.
p.s those where the only UK numbers on the site but 51 gun deaths last year in the UK, 83 gun deaths a day last year in the US. incase the US numbers look bloated when we look at just gun homocides in the US they look like this

2011: 11,101
2010: 11,078
2009: 11,493
2008: 12,179
2007: 12,632
2006: 12,791
2005: 12,352
2004: 11,624
2003: 11,920
2002: 11,829
2001: 11,348
2000: 10,801
1999: 10,828
1998: 9,257
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:04 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The main fallacy I see is in the crude conclusions; it's preferable to heavily regulate the right to entertainment, marriage, even procreation? That last one really sets my alarm bells off.

'...I don't watch this stuff because it is gratuitous violence; it's not appealing to me at all and it is not entertaining.'
Well, some people don't like guns--but that doesn't count as an argument, either.

But I think he grazes (yes, intended^^) a good point: the problem is with the culture of violence (which it sounds to me he criticizes in KATG's language, no?). Which, yes, is reflected in games and movies, but in the US' gun culture also (it's not all hunting and self protection)--he showed that in the story with the rabbit himself!

What I'd really like to point to is the fellow podcast pioneer (in a total different field, so no competetion to the subscriptions on iTunes ):
Common Sense - Gunning for Violence

Dan Carlin so nicely shows what pro gun culture people should be pushing for (yes, treating the mentally ill, too), instead of trying to deflect blame to easy but false scapegoats. And 'stop talking out your ass', as Ron puts it, yourselves.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Laurens dad sounds exactly like Jesse Ventura!
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