1645: The Civil War II

[stulagu]

Originally Posted by Nightengale64

Most of the old books of the bible are stories from the cultures before the creation of the bible. They wanted to include those stories that they could not dispute. The great flood is just one of those stories. It appears in many cultures hundreds of years before before the bible and in several different cultures. Eve and the serpent was created to dispel a myth that a local culture who worshiped a serpent god was correct.

I wish the chrisitans to look really hard at the books so that they can see just how out of date they really are. Keeping the old laws of stoning and whatnot that speak of cruelty towards all others might open their eyes to the major flaws in their thinking. Logical arguments with them garner me no ground.

I would love for a catholic to admit where the church money came from in the first place. The pope was in charge of running several brothels and often the popes died of STDs.

That is the OT not NT...I think most Christians realize the Moses did not personally write the first 5 books of the Bible. I don't think the stories were written as a politcal agenda, though...

the Catholics are quickly losing ground, especially since some of their own are turning away from their strict beliefs...a group of nuns was just disbanded and a man was put in charge of them because they were too liberal, we'll start to see their obvious contradictions come to light more and more.

And the church got their money from taking land and espionage, they didn't get rich off of brothels.

[stulagu]

Originally Posted by Nightengale64

Their steady income was houses of ill repute. If you read some of the anthropology reports on the old books you will learn of the majority view that the old stories were created in response to the stories of the time that they were written. I have spent my the majority of my scholarly studies on this.

I'm going to need to see some support and facts on this...I've studied it as well, and nowhere have I been taught that the Catholic church made it's money from brothels. Yes, they turned convents into basically brothels, but you're saying that they made their money this way, which suggests this was the main source of income...

[rodimusprime]

Originally Posted by stulagu

That is the OT not NT...I think most Christians realize the Moses did not personally write the first 5 books of the Bible.

Stuff like this both gives me hope for and turns me off towards religion. Like how can so many people realize that huge parts of their belief system is complete bullshit but still organize against gay rights, abortion and protect child molesters? It's just so odd.

[stulagu]

Originally Posted by rodimusprime

Stuff like this both gives me hope for and turns me off towards religion. Like how can so many people realize that huge parts of their belief system is complete bullshit but still organize against gay rights, abortion and protect child molesters? It's just so odd.

There are plenty of Christians that support social issues and that realize seperation of Church and state is important. I'm a Lutheran, and we broke away from the Catholics hundreds of years ago...it sucks to lump us all together, though I understand why it is done. (but the Catholics are the molesters, not all Christians)

I am attending a church that belongs to a denomination that is anti gay and doesn't allow women to be pastors. I totally disagree with these views. However, it is VERY hard for me to find a church that meets the main reason why I go to church (a knowledgable pastor that knows the Bible and how to teach it, good music, a healthy environment, and that I can take something from each week spiritually). I have made enemies in my church speaking out against the social views, but I have also had people privately thank me for being vocal about my social views.

There are Christians that line gay pride parades with signs saying "I'm sorry" apologizing for the church's attitude. Eventually, enough will get the courage to do the same. It will take a LONG time to turn the established denominations around, but I hope it happens.

I think a good amount of logical Christians, when argued with respectfully, realize that when boiled down, the very basics of Christianity is about loving everyone, no matter who they are. Whether that gets translated to "I don't agree with you, but wont' judge you" or "hate the sin, not the sinner" or "by golly, just because you're gay it doesn't mean you're not a good person" or "I don't care who you are, lets all hold hands and pray" I don't know...but these next couple decades will definitely be tumultuous ones for Christian traditions.

I just photographed a wedding of two women that are very devoted Christians, their wedding was way more spiritual and emotional than most straight weddings I've shot, and it meant even more seeing these families embrace their daughters for who they are. I was moved to tears many times.

[stulagu]

Originally Posted by Nightengale64

I am trying to remember which of my text books said this. It was when the person was appointed pope by the king and the position went to one of his brothers or kinsmen so that they could keep the views and opinions of the vadican in their pockets. I shall try and find the book title for you if you want.

Ok, wait, so ONE text book said this? and it was in ONE instance?

[Blitzgal]

Originally Posted by Nightengale64

I am trying to remember which of my text books said this. It was when the person was appointed pope by the king and the position went to one of his brothers or kinsmen so that they could keep the views and opinions of the vadican in their pockets. I shall try and find the book title for you if you want.

I don't want to be....mean....but you studied this topic in school and can't spell "the Vatican?"

Are you talking about the Borgias?

[rodimusprime]

Originally Posted by stulagu

There are plenty of Christians that support social issues and that realize seperation of Church and state is important. I'm a Lutheran, and we broke away from the Catholics hundreds of years ago...it sucks to lump us all together, though I understand why it is done. (but the Catholics are the molesters, not all Christians)

I am attending a church that belongs to a denomination that is anti gay and doesn't allow women to be pastors. I totally disagree with these views. However, it is VERY hard for me to find a church that meets the main reason why I go to church (a knowledgable pastor that knows the Bible and how to teach it, good music, a healthy environment, and that I can take something from each week spiritually). I have made enemies in my church speaking out against the social views, but I have also had people privately thank me for being vocal about my social views.

There are Christians that line gay pride parades with signs saying "I'm sorry" apologizing for the church's attitude. Eventually, enough will get the courage to do the same. It will take a LONG time to turn the established denominations around, but I hope it happens.

I think a good amount of logical Christians, when argued with respectfully, realize that when boiled down, the very basics of Christianity is about loving everyone, no matter who they are. Whether that gets translated to "I don't agree with you, but wont' judge you" or "hate the sin, not the sinner" or "by golly, just because you're gay it doesn't mean you're not a good person" or "I don't care who you are, lets all hold hands and pray" I don't know...but these next couple decades will definitely be tumultuous ones for Christian traditions.

I just photographed a wedding of two women that are very devoted Christians, their wedding was way more spiritual and emotional than most straight weddings I've shot, and it meant even more seeing these families embrace their daughters for who they are. I was moved to tears many times.

I think that's what bothers me the most. People will boycott a chicken joint but then go to a church with the same views or worse. It's like they are the mass of the flock but they are scared to actually actively get a change. Why the women of all these churches that don't allow women as pastors wouldn't just join up and leave? I don't know.

Like you said your church "Lutherans" left and formed what they thought was a better situation. (I'm not even getting into the child molestation thing but I've seen it in more than the Catholic church. See: Eddie Long)

It's just sad cause as long as people are just happy to have a place to go on Sunday's they're going to continue to let all social change fall to the wayside.

[stulagu]

Originally Posted by rodimusprime

I think that's what bothers me the most. People will boycott a chicken joint but then go to a church with the same views or worse. It's like they are the mass of the flock but they are scared to actually actively get a change. Why the women of all these churches that don't allow women as pastors wouldn't just join up and leave? I don't know.

Like you said your church "Lutherans" left and formed what they thought was a better situation. (I'm not even getting into the child molestation thing but I've seen it in more than the Catholic church. See: Eddie Long)

It's just sad cause as long as people are just happy to have a place to go on Sunday's they're going to continue to let all social change fall to the wayside.

I don't leave because I can understand their view on it even though I don't agree with it. As long as it isn't "women are weak so they can't be pastors" and I am not treated as a lesser person (which I was at one church I left) then for me the overall benefit is better than nothing. Kind of like being a democrat, I don't like everything about them, but I believe in most of it, so I stay but still make my mind known.

I'm not saying Lutherans don't abuse kids at all, I think they are more passive aggressive and belittle children. I think a lot of the Catholic sexual abuse is because 1) the celebacy (nuns sexually abuse too) and 2) the job can attract people prone to molesting kids, oh and 3) the church was so afraid to expose it, that they ended up encouraging it via looking the other way.

I agree that it is sad, but not everyone can be activists. At every other church I went to or worked for I caused problems...same with pretty much my entire educational history since middle school. I've been beaten down so much and made so little headway, that at this church I decided to not be so vehement and do things with a gentler (quieter) hand.

Yelling your views at someone who doesn't believe what you're saying does nothing. Showing compassion and quiet respect yet holding your ground with your views and even maybe compromising gains a whole lot more ground. Of course, this is just my experience...

[stulagu]

Originally Posted by Nightengale64

Sorry college lets you graduate without first learning how to spell. The Borgias family was just one the corrupt periods of Rome.

I have been google searching for an hour and seriously can't find anything to back up what you are saying...and I'd be worried if a college graduated you where you can't spell one of the most important words in your main studies.

[BrianAlt]

Eat fish on Fridays...

Why?

Because the fishmongers appealed to the Pope that their fish wasn't being bought enough. He decided that he would declare Friday, "fish eating day!" Religion or politics?

This story repeats itself over and over again.

Even the kosher laws...people eat pigs...they die. People eat shellfish...they die. DON'T EAT THOSE THINGS!!!! Make up a reason why because the science of the day can't say WHY. A good idea? At the time, absolutely. Today? Outdated.

Now that we can see at a microscopic level, bugs are being found on fruit. Eating bugs on fruit invalidates the fruit being kosher. We could never see it before and ate it without a thought of kosher/non-kosher. Is the fruit kosher? IMO ridiculous to even discuss.