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View Poll Results: Did Woody Allen molest Dyan Farrow?
Yes 106 82.17%
No 23 17.83%
Voters: 129. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-14-2014, 01:41 AM   #131 (permalink)
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Anything else I can do for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Squirrel View Post
Pat did two things on the show.
1) He put made up points that he claimed Keith and Chemda were trying to make.
2) He showed why the case was never prosecuted. NOT why Woody is innocent.

Here's the thing though. We don't give a shit why the case wasn't legally prosecuted. We care why Pat Dixon personally thinks Woody Allen is a good man who did nothing wrong.
I literally don't understand what you mean in point 1)

I wasn't just showing why the case was never prosecuted, I was presenting factual information from which you can draw your own conclusions about the case. I was not on the program to prove that Woody is innocent. That was never my intent.

You want me to say to why I think Woody Allen is a good man who did nothing wrong. Who are you to demand I support a claim I never made? I was only on the show to correct falsehoods and clear up a small part of the misinformation about the Woody Allen sex abuse allegation.

Why are Dylan's sub-accusers to averse to facts?! Ask yourself that.
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:47 AM   #132 (permalink)
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Beware of the "undercurrent"

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Originally Posted by Shananigans View Post
He wasn't in the least bit objective. I have no problem with crude jokes about rape and murder but Pat wasn't joking here and while there has been an undercurrent that made me uncomfortable from time to time with him, here it was explicit. Stripped of humour (and I usually find the NYCCR hilarious) Pat is just someone bending over backwards to make excuses for Woody and it grosses me out.

I am not censoring Pat if I choose not to listen to him, he's still free to say whatever he wants.
No offense, but you're full of shit.

I'm not making excuses for anyone, I'm putting forth facts in an case. If you don't like it, you don't like the truth. To say I'm bending over backwards to make excuses for Woody Allen may be your opinion, but it's a very stupid one.

You're right though, my podcast NYC Crime Report is hilarious. THANK YOU, YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE!!

ps. there's no "u" in humor. I said "good day!"
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:53 AM   #133 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElleKeener View Post
Naked pictures of Soon-Yi at the age of 15, years before they were apparently dating? Woody was clearly lusting after her long before those pictures.

Pat is that annoying patronising person who acts as if he isn't picking sides and is neutral, but it's very apparent what side he is on.
The pictures were taken when Soon-Yi was 21, not 15. Keith's statement was altogether inaccurate.

I get it, you hate people who speak from a factual basis. It's more fun when people just throw poop at each other isn't it?

Your comment is one of the very stupidest I've seen on this thread. Congratulations.
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:55 AM   #134 (permalink)
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Haha. You wrote all that for a guy that has a 'fuck you you fucking fuck' avatar.

The only thing Woody Allen is guilty of is being innocent.
I think Present Barack "Barry" Hussein Obama should personally apologize and american tax dollars should go to support Woody Allen & Soon-yi until they die.

PARTY SUPER PARTY.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatDixonNYC View Post
If everyone is biased, why make a point of my history?

I didn't "have an incident." I was the victim of a violent crime, this makes me biased?

By your logic, if someone was the victim of sexual abuse, we can assume they're biased?

Should we gleefully point out their victimization as you have mine? and further use their victimization to discredit what they say?

Can you now see that you're an asshole?



YES, LET'S DISCUSS THIS DECISION

The tone of Judge Wilk's decision is very anti-Woody.

I agree completely. And if anyone hasn't read this decision, I recommend you do read it if you have any interest in the Woody Allen situation.

He does disregard the evidence of the discovery team.



The Connecticut state police conducted an investigation which included the team of child abuse specialists hired by the DA Frank Maco, the Yale-New Haven Hospital Child Sex Abuse Clinic.

Judge Wilk's reasons for calling their report "sanitized" are as follows:

"The notes of the team members were destroyed prior to the issuance of the report, which, presumably, is an amalgamation of their independent impressions and observations. The unavailability of the notes, together with their unwillingness to testify at this trial except through the deposition of Dr. Leventhal, compromised my ability to scrutinize their findings and resulted in a report which was sanitized and, therefore, less credible."

After this team, again hired by the State to discover possible reasons to prosecute Woody Allen for sexually abusing Dylan, conducted an exhaustive 7-month investigation, including interviews with Dylan, Woody, Mia and all concerned:

They came back with a report detailing their findings, and provided a deposition through Dr. Leventhal. Their finding: WOODY ALLEN DID NOT MOLEST DYLAN FARROW.

But the judge says: No notes, no opportunity to question the findings in my courtroom: no value to this report. As a judge, he has the latitude to dismiss anything, and give weight to whatever he likes, at his whim.

Wilk blew it off. I'm not as quick to dismiss this report on the basis that they didn't provide notes or appear before this judge. I figure a pediatrician and a two social workers, one with a PhD, one with a masters, all who are committed employees of a Child Sex Abuse Clinic at a prestigious hospital; the kind of team that the state calls when they want something investigated; MIGHT KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THIS CASE THAT SOME GUY IN BROOKLYN DOESN'T KNOW.

You're free to draw whatever conclusions you wish, but NOWHERE here does it state or even IMPLY that the team was INEPT or "criminally bad at their job." The conclusions you draw from information are just wildly inaccurate. If you think it says that, read it again. Circle the adjectives he uses.

QUESTION: If the Yale-New Haven Child Sex Abuse Clinic had presented Wilk with no notes, no appearance in court, BUT claimed Mr. Allen was guilty of molesting Dylan, do you think he would've been so quick to discredit it?

SPEAKING OF BIAS
Here's another quote from Judge Wilk's decision, in reference to Dr. Nancy Schultz and Dr. Susan Coates, psychologists hired by Mia to treat Dylan and Satchel and who had been seeing the family for therapy for a period of a couple of years before the accusations:

"Both Dr. Coates and Dr. Schultz expressed their opinions that Mr. Allen did not sexually abuse Dylan."

Okay, there's the opinion of two child psychologists hired by Mia to treat her children.

But then Judge Wilk quickly adds:

"Neither Dr. Coates nor Dr. Schultz has expertise in the field of child sexual abuse."

Uh…okay. But they are pretty familiar with Dylan.

Judge Wilk continues:

"I believe the opinions of Dr. Coates and Dr. Schultz may have been colored by their loyalty to Mr. Allen."

Judge Wilk asserts these two DOCTORS, child psychologists who were seeing Dylan on a regular basis, are too blinded by their affection for the ever-so-charming Woody Allen to recognize the needs of their patient(s).

And finally, in case Judge Wilk hadn't convinced you yet of the complete quackery of these two women:

"I also believe therapists would have a natural reluctance to accept the possibility that an act of sexual abuse occurred on their watch. I have considered their opinions, but do not find their testimony to be persuasive with respect to sexual abuse or visitation."

Well, there you go.
Even if all they WERE expert in the field of child sex abuse, even if they weren't firmly in the pocket of Mr. Allen, they STILL wouldn't be credible testifying that Dylan wasn't molested.

Judge Wilk, in presupposing "a natural reluctance to accept that an act of sexual abuse occurred on their watch," basically annuls any opinion the doctors have UNLESS it supports the story of the accused.

THINK ABOUT IT? Biased???? Just think about it for a minute.

QUESTION: If they had thought Mr. Allen guilty, do you believe Judge Wilk would've disregarded their testimony?

Dr. Susan Coates is the psychologist from Maureen Orth's anti-Woody article (http://www.vanityfair.com/online/dai...use-10-factsin) about which, as one of her "10 Undeniable Facts about the Woody Allen Sex Allegation," it's stated:

2. Allen had been in therapy for alleged inappropriate behavior toward Dylan with a child psychologist before the abuse allegation was presented to the authorities or made public.

This Dr. Susan Coates is quoted at trial:

"I understood why she was worried, because it [Mr. Allen's relationship with Dylan] was intense. . . I did not see it as sexual, but I saw it as inappropriately intense because it excluded everybody else, and it placed a demand on a child for a kind of acknowledgement that I felt should not be placed on a child."

Dr. Coates doesn't think Woody did it.
Dr. Shultz doesn't think Woody did it.
The Yale-New Have Child Sex Abuse Clinic doesn't think Woody did it.
But the Judge is writing the decision.

CONCLUSION OF THE JUDGE
“I agree with Dr. Herman and Dr. Brodzinsky that we will probably never know what occurred on August 4, 1992. The credible testimony of Ms. Farrow, Dr. Coates, Dr. Leventhal and Mr. Allen does, however, prove that Mr. Allen’s behavior toward Dylan was grossly inappropriate and that measures must be taken to protect her.”

When Dr. Coates says something that sounds anti-Woody, suddenly she's credible.

Do you see a pattern here?

HOW DOES THE JUDGE TREAT MIA?



How about this for irony. Mia HITS her children, and the judge thinks her principal shortcoming with respect to responsible parenting is her continued relationship with Woody!!

From Judge Wilk's decision:

"When Soon-Yi referred to her sexual relationship with Mr. Allen, Ms. Farrow hit her on the side of the face and on the shoulders."

Big deal, right? She was understandably mad, right?

QUESTION: What if Woody would've hit Soon-Yi? or Mia. How quickly would Judge Wilk (or you) excuse that? But it's okay, because it's Mia, and she was hurting inside…(?)

From Judge Wilk's decision:

“In February 1992, Ms. Farrow gave Mr. Allen a family picture Valentine with skewers through the hearts of the children and a knife through the heart of Ms. Farrow. She also defaced and destroyed several photographs of Mr. Allen and of Soon-Yi.”

The "Valentine" if you haven't seen it is chilling. Judge Wilk fails to mention that the knife was wrapped with a photo of Soon-Yi.

He concludes about Mia:

“I do not view the Valentine’s Day card, the note affixed to the bathroom door in Connecticut, or the destruction of photographs as anything more than expressions of Mr. Farrows understandable anger and her ability to communicate her distress by word and symbol rather than by action."

She also communicated her distress by hitting her daughter, but theres no further mention of that here or anywhere else in the decision. Why exactly is this not relevant in a custody hearing?

And what's this note on the bathroom door? Very little has been said about it.
From Judge Wilk's decision:

“In July 1992, Ms. Farrow had a birthday party for Dylan at her Connecticut home. Mr. Allen came and monopolized Dylan’s time and attention. After Mr. Allen retired to the guest room for the night, Ms. Farrow affixed to his bathroom door, a note which called Mr. Allen a child molester. The reference was to his affair with Soon-Yi.”

The note isn't quoted verbatim in his decision.
the exact words of the note are here:

“Child molester at birthday party, molded and abused one sister, now focused on youngest sister, family disgusted.”

His summation of this bizarre note, EVEN in light of the molestation accusations which occurred within three weeks of her putting this note on his door. "…a note which called Mr. Allen a child molester. The reference was to his affair with Soon-Yi."

link to source:
Woody Allen Recalls Alleged Death Threats and Haunting Valentine from Mia Farrow in 1992 '60 Minutes' Interview

Judge Wilk considers this note calling Mr. Allen a child molester to be an "expression of her understandable anger and her ability to communicate her distress by word and symbol rather than action."

Mia left the note accusing him of being a child molester in July 1992.
That same month, Mia received a letter from a summer camp where Soon-Yi had been employed. It explained Soon-Yi been let go because she was preoccupied with phone calls and it was evident those calls were between her and Mr. Allen.

Woody had told her back in February the affair was over, and Mia accepted this and continued to date Woody Allen.

The letter from camp (which came in the third or fourth week of July) is how Mia found out that Woody was still seeing Soon-Yi.

Aug. 4 Was the day the alleged abuse occurred.

HOW THE ALLEGATION AGAINST WOODY ALLEN SURFACED

Present at Mia's country home:
Ms. Kristie Groteke (Mia's baby sitter)
Ms. Alison Stickland (Casey Pascal's baby sitter)
Ms. Sophie Berge (a French tutor)
Ms. Pascal's three children.
Mia and Woody's children Dylan and Satchel.

Aug. 4 Woody arrived at Mia's Connecticut home to visit his children.

FACT: It was agreed that Woody would visit the kids that day. With the full understanding that the "child molester" who was "focussed on the youngest sister" was coming, Mia went shopping the whole day, leaving Dylan and Satchel with a baby sitter.

FACT: Mia did instruct the baby sitter Ms. Kristie Groteke not to allow Mr. Allen to be alone with Dylan.

QUESTION: If Mia considered Woody to be a potential predator, and one who was focussed on her daughter…would her maternal instinct allow her to go shopping for an extended period of time leaving her threatened child with a baby sitter?

QUESTION: Could it be that when she called Woody a child molester, she didn't mean it literally. Perhaps she was just, kind of, throwing that word around…?

QUESTION: However if she didn't truly consider Woody a potential threat to Dylan, why would she so instruct a baby sitter?

QUESTION: What purpose could it serve to tell the baby sitter not to leave Dylan alone with Woody? unless you consider him to be a TRUE THREAT. In which case, how could you trot off shopping all day leaving the child in the hands of a baby sitter?

Does that makes sense to anyone?
I don't have kids, but from what I've gathered, mothers are EXTREMELY protective of their children. Mothers, if you knew a potential predator (a "child molester") was coming to your home, would you simply tell the baby sitter "I'm going shopping, now don't let anything happen when that 'child molester' who is 'focussed on the youngest sister' gets here"?

FACT: Mia was shopping that day with Ms. Casey Pascal. Ms. Pascal also left behind three young children.

QUESTION: Did Mia apprise Ms. Pascal of the risk? Did Mia explain that a child molester was coming to visit his children and would be there for hours?

QUESTION: Did Mia explain to Ms. Pascal that this was a man whom she didn't even trust to be alone with her daughter for a few minutes?

QUESTION: If Mia didn't share this information with Casey Pascal, do you think should she have?

QUESTION: Would a responsible mother share her concerns with another mother who happens to also be leaving 3 young children in the hands of a single baby sitter?

QUESTION: And if she did warn Ms. Pascal that the molester was coming to visit his children, would Ms. Pascal likewise leave her 3 young children in the hands of Ms. Strickland?

QUESTION: Would two seemingly responsible mothers spend the day shopping and leave their 5 young children all day in the presence of a potential child molester?

QUESTION: With a potential PREDATOR coming to visit, wouldn't most mothers remain behind, just in case?

FACT: In anticipation of the arrival of a man Mia considered a threat to her daughter -- who she referred to as a child molester and said was "focussed on" her defenseless daughter Dylan -- 5 YOUNG CHILDREN were left with two babysitters and a french tutor.

FACT: 5 children. 3 adults. + 1 supposed potential predator.

QUESTION: Although she freely called him a child molester and implied he was a threat with her instructions to the baby sitter, what do her actions imply about Mia's true feelings about the level of threat she felt from Woody Allen?

FACT: That day, while looking for one of Ms. Pascal's children, Ms. Stickland observed Mr. Allen in the television room.

from Judge Wilk's decision:

“During a different portion of the day, Ms. Stickland went to the television room in search of one of Ms. Pascal’s children. She observed Mr. Allen kneeling in front of Dylan with his head on her lap, facing her body. Dylan was sitting on the couch staring vacantly in the direction of a television set.”

QUESTION: Were they alone? It's significant, but for some reason omitted in Judge Wilk's account. If they were alone, why is this period of time not under heavier scrutiny, this alone time which Ms. Farrow ordered not to occur? If they weren't alone, this would imply that it was going on in the presence of others, presumably Ms. Groteke, the baby sitter, who had be instructed not to leave them alone.

FACT: During the night of Aug. 4, Ms. Stickland mentioned what she saw to Ms. Pascal, adding that had bothered her. Ms. Pascal phoned Ms. Farrow and told her what the baby sitter had told her. Mia asked Dylan if it was true that Daddy put his face in her lap.

Mia in court:
“Dylan said yes. And then she said that she didn’t like it one bit, no, he was breathing into her, into her legs, she said. And that he was holding her around the waist and I said, why didn’t you get up and she said she tried to but that he put his hands underneath her and touched her. And she showed me where…Her behind.”

When Dylan confirmed that Woody had put his head in her lap, Mia called her attorney. Her attorney advised her to take Dylan to a pediatrician, which Mia did immediately. Dylan said she wasn't molested. Mia agreed to bring her back the following day.

from Judge Wilk's decision, then:

"Because she was already uncomfortable with Mr. Allen's inappropriate behavior toward Dylan and because she believed her concerns were not being taken seriously enough by Dr. Schultz and Dr. Coates, Ms. Farrow videotaped Dylan's statements. Over the next 24-hours, Dylan told Ms. Farrow that she had been with Mr. Allen in the attic and that he had touched her privates with his finger."

On Aug. 6, after the 24-hour period of making the videotape with Mia accusing Woody, Dylan was returned to the pediatrician, where she promptly accused Woody Allen of molesting her.

Aug. 9 A medical exam concluded there was no evidence of sexual abuse.

The pediatrician immediately notified law enforcement, as they are legally bound to do.

Although Dr. Schultz was vacationing in Europe, Mia phoned her every day and they spoke about Dylan.

Mia also phoned Dr. Coates saying "It sounds very convincing to me, doesn't it to you?"

7 days later, Woody Allen filed for custody of Dylan, Satchel and Moses.



Curt, I'm not saying anything that isn't 100% factual. I'll document everything and I'll show my work. I continue to dismiss the idea that recounting factual information about a well-publicized case is an act of cruelty towards victims. The fact that you invoke the pain of victims in order to silence the detailing of factual information is frankly exploitive and pathetic. I never denied the validity of any charges. I presented information, and corrected some falsehoods which second-hand accusers with nothing to do with the victim have hurled around. If you draw from that that the charges are invalid, well there are. Enough hysteria.




Yes, potential accusers need to know that their claims of sexual abuse will be evaluated and if you say someone sexually abused you, you will have to substantiate that claim. The burden of proof falls to the prosecution. No one has to prove themselves innocent. I don't make the rules.

You say that a basic rule of law is a tacit jab at a victim, and then lay responsibility on me for ripping open wounds, when no one was discussing ANY of this before Ronan, Mia and, yes, Dylan publicized this abuse once again. Meanwhile, Dylan calls on actors not to appear in Woody's movies while Mia gives her full consent to have her clip included in the montage paying tribute to the Big BAD WOLF!

Your accusations are tiresome. I've never scrutinized ANY VICTIM'S CREDIBILITY.




I never blamed anyone for anything, Curt. I asked why they haven't filed civil charged. They don't have to "push" anything, they simply phone an attorney. Just like she did the first time in 1992.

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Old 02-14-2014, 01:55 AM   #135 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssgtballard View Post
Two big points that keep being brought up but I cannot find any proof of are the naked pics from before she was 18, everything seems to state that she was 20 when they were found but don't point to a age.
Keith keeps stating that Soon yi was 16 but everything else states 18 - 20.

I love hearing the arguing specially with such personalities doing it. Keith actually sits in middle hear because Pat has been marked as misoginistic many times and Chemda is obviously very feminist. The only issue I have is Chemda seems to have rolling arguments, she starts with one point and keeps going until she gets all of her points out without letting Pat respond to each point.

Either way good tense episodes should happen so often.
I really did want to give each point she was making equal attention, but when Chemda says "Let me finish" you better just do it.

Ironically, Chemda and I probably don't actually disagree on many things in real life.
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Old 02-14-2014, 02:13 AM   #136 (permalink)
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I have to agree

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Originally Posted by Fireball8 View Post
Really enjoyed the energy in this podcast. Special mention to Dixon, smooth operator. His changes of pace were great, got on the offensive when he needed to and then settled back down to examining evidence and effectively working as a voice of reason.
Spot on!
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Old 02-14-2014, 02:15 AM   #137 (permalink)
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You calm down.

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Originally Posted by New here View Post
I loved later in the episode when Pat was getting worked up Keith said to him sarcastically, "woah calm down!" because Pat had pulled that bs on Chemda.

I kept thinking Pat's got to be at least partially disingenuous on many of the things he was saying.
Everything I said is true. What more can I say.
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Old 02-14-2014, 02:34 AM   #138 (permalink)
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Be fair.

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Originally Posted by thirteen View Post
Were you even listening to Pat? He was being just as hostile.
If you say so.

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Originally Posted by thirteen View Post
As much as I think Pat Dixon is hilarious, his attitude towards certain things, especially women, always leaves me unsettled. Just the fact that he made it a point to blame Soon-Yi for something tells us a lot. You can say things about her as an adult, but not about things that may have happened when she was younger than 20. Especially the beginning of the relationship (and..please...a flip doesn't just switch in your brain the day a girl turns 18; Allen had known her for years before that).
This is Soon-Yi's opinion from Aug. 1992. Maybe check it out.
Soon-Yi Speaks: 'Let's Not Get Hysterical'

Until such a time as feminists (or anyone who would advance this point of view) are willing to put an asterisk next to everything an 18-20 year old woman says or writes partially disclaiming it's value, or attribute her only a partial vote in a general election, I think it would be only fair to give them the same courtesy in deciding who to date. To say they are fully empowered and knowledgeable in the ways of the world EXCEPT when it looks creepy to someone is a blatant accusation against anyone to which a young woman might be attracted who falls outside the accepted age-range. And what's that range, by the way? And who decides it?

Why is it when an older woman goes after a much younger man, she's celebrated as a "cougar" instead of being condemned as a "creepy old lady"? Why do we generally not have the slightest concern for the well-being of a "young stud" who gets plucked for the entertainment of a wily old beast?

Consider whether you truly grant women FULL equality, or if you grant them equality only when it's convenient and doesn't challenge your emotional truth. There are many challenges in truly assessing the equality of men and women, and many of those challenges fall to men in terms of adjusting our levels of respect, courtesy and, yes, pay!

But sometimes when fairness demands an adjustment to our deeply engrained assumptions about the relative power of men and women, it's the protective instinct that has to be shouted down. After all, young women have changed the course of history at times by manipulating much older men. Gold diggers tip fortunes into their bank accounts. And home wreckers…well, you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thirteen View Post
Regarding Pat's podcast: the humour is extreme and I do like that Jim Polk and some of the other guests. Right now I take breaks every couple of months because it gets to be too much if I listen to it every week.

To those people who are unsubscribing: it's not censorship if someone chooses to not have something in their lives. Pat is still free to do whatever he wants. I'm still going to listen, to be clear, but people have a right to decide when they want to cut something off. His show is also a lot of joking around...not the same as what happened on KATG yesterday.

Overall, I think Pat did a decent job getting his point across, but it doesn't have much to do with Woody's innocence. And Keith and Chemda did a good job opposing him.
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Old 02-14-2014, 02:41 AM   #139 (permalink)
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You are mistaken

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Originally Posted by WhiskeyApprentice View Post
I never figured out why Pat's on Woody's side. Does he feel defensive for a dude who's being attacked in the media?

What a frustrating episode. Pat's defense was somewhat logical but was so dismissive of Dylan's letter. It made him sound like he would dismiss any person who was making an abuse claim like hers.

Plus Pat's understanding of how the police collect evidence for cases is pretty poor. It's not the D.A.'s job to find people guilty, it's their job to find the truth for the benefit of the public.
I didn't say it was the job of the State Attorney to find people guilty.

Before there can be a charge, law enforcement to collect enough evidence to make an arrest. The D.A. is not interested in finding evidence to support the innocence of a man accused of molesting a child or any other crime.

He's a prosecutor, sir. Not an attorney for the defense. He's working for the alleged-victim to build a case.

As to what you thought you heard me say about Dylan's letter, you are mistaken.
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Old 02-14-2014, 02:45 AM   #140 (permalink)
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SOMEBODY GETS IT!!

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Originally Posted by ImStillToni View Post
Now that I finished that clusterfuck, I'd say let the Woody Allen shit GO already you guys lmao damn i love yall but I wanted to shake the shit outta both of your asses & found myself agreeing with Pat most of the time.

I just find it very dangerous when people state their opinion as fact, as though listeners who do not take the time to research said topic will by no doubt believe the opinions as fact....how could you guys go on and on about a crime when in fact the man was never even charged with a crime in 20+ years? Fact remains, he was never charged. So to continue going on and on like he was based on one person's claims is not the best thing to do imo....all you gotta do is throw in an "allegedly" beforehand.
Thanks Toni, I can't add anything to that. You nailed it.
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